Jeff Miller
EF5
Not to be a stickler, but I have never heard any definitive studies that have taken us to the point where a particular side of a tornado is weaker...... That statement seems subjective and without source. :/
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Not to be a stickler, but I have never heard any definitive studies that have taken us to the point where a particular side of a tornado is weaker...... That statement seems subjective and without source. :/
Greg Stumpf
EF5
A vortex has a tangential velocity of x. If the vortex is translating at a velocity of y, then the winds on the right side of the vortex will be x+y, and on the left side x-y.
Jeff Miller
EF5
gotcha. Thanks, Greg.
On the subject, I too believe that the tornado JUST missed the highway on that infamous video. Very, very close call.
On the subject, I too believe that the tornado JUST missed the highway on that infamous video. Very, very close call.
Mike Smith
I didn't realize this is, apparently, a contentious topic. Here is the basis for my earlier comment:
On April 26, 1991, WeatherData® did all of the on-air weathercasts for KSNW TV and I, specifically, was handling the storm warnings both on-air and for our non-broadcast clients for the Kansas tornadoes that day. The "underpass" tornado came from the same supercell that spawned the earlier Wichita-Andover Tornado.
I have viewed, multiple times, the raw "underpass" video shot by Ted Lewis. In addition to having access to the raw video, I viewed that video on an editing machine that allowed me to slow it down, view it forward and reverse, etc. I have also visited the site where the video was shot. WeatherData's building was physically connected to KSNW's, I spoke with Greg that evening, and with Ted many times thereafter. I had full access to KSNW's facilities.
Ted and reporter Greg Jared edited the video for on-air purposes and that is what has been seen on the air so many times.
From memory, here is the sequence of events on the raw tape:
Ted and Greg are coming back from covering a story in northeast Kansas, completely unaware there are tornadoes in the area.
They spot the "Son of Andover" tornado (as we called it).
They make a U-Turn to try to escape (there was no concrete Jersey Barrier on the Turnpike at that time)
Greg perceives they are losing ground to the tornado (faster, Ted, faster faster!)
They decide to take shelter under the bridge along with other motorists
Ted positions the camera toward the southwest
Cars are seen being 'grabbed' by the tornado, thrown into the field east of the Turnpike then thrown west into the Turnpike
The edge of the tornado goes over the bridge and we see the high winds
Ted points the camera northeast, showing the tornado on the east edge of the Turnpike as Greg shouts "here comes another one!" which is a reference to being hit by the RFD
The father of the family with whom they take shelter says to Greg and Ted, "you almost didn't make it" as they come out from under the bridge
There is video of the injured people in the vehicles that were plucked off the Turnpike and injured as their vehicles were crushed while bouncing through the field. At least one comments on camera as to what it was like to be picked up by a tornado. She was seriously injured, as I recall.
Hope this clears it up.
Mike
Eric Flescher
EF5
"underpass" tornado
I still can't believe that I was out in Western Kansas that day for a science ed conference and was coming from . I did not hear anything about tornadoes in the area on the radio.
This underpass tornado I have seen many times. One of cars / trucks tumbling over with close up was memorable. The rustling of the wind as the tornado positioned over them.
meanwhile
"The "underpass" tornado came from the same supercell that spawned the earlier Wichita-Andover Tornado. "
what was the exact position of this "underpass" tornado?
The picture of the Andover or one of them coming up over the highway that was in the Kansas City Star I remember is one of my all time pics . It the tornado in the back over the highway with trucks and cars in the foreground. Amazing monster!!
I still can't believe that I was out in Western Kansas that day for a science ed conference and was coming from . I did not hear anything about tornadoes in the area on the radio.
This underpass tornado I have seen many times. One of cars / trucks tumbling over with close up was memorable. The rustling of the wind as the tornado positioned over them.
meanwhile
"The "underpass" tornado came from the same supercell that spawned the earlier Wichita-Andover Tornado. "
what was the exact position of this "underpass" tornado?
The picture of the Andover or one of them coming up over the highway that was in the Kansas City Star I remember is one of my all time pics . It the tornado in the back over the highway with trucks and cars in the foreground. Amazing monster!!
David Drummond
Member
I'll ask the question I have always wanted to know. They were on a turnpike, that wasn't particularly congested with traffic it appeared. Why did they just not simply outrun it?
Mike Smith
I never asked the question of either Ted or Greg, but that stretch of Turnpike is straight southwest-northeast, the same direction as the tornado was moving.
Remember, there are no off-ramps to the Turnpike in that area except at north El Dorado (U.S. 77) and Cassody (K-177). I believe, in the stress of the moment, they were afraid they would be chased by the tornado until they got into congestion or some other problem and then would be trapped in open country.
So, better to take their chances under the bridge.
Remember, there are no off-ramps to the Turnpike in that area except at north El Dorado (U.S. 77) and Cassody (K-177). I believe, in the stress of the moment, they were afraid they would be chased by the tornado until they got into congestion or some other problem and then would be trapped in open country.
So, better to take their chances under the bridge.
Graham Butler
EF3
Why cover the news when you can become the news? I doubt that they would ever admit to it but I have a hunch that it was a deliberate decision made by the news crew. In all reality by them taking "cover" there and instructing others to thus take cover; it seems as though they gave the other motorists a false sense of safety.
Graham
Mike Smith
I strongly believe your hunch is incorrect based on my relationship with the individuals involved and listening to their off-camera comments in the raw tape. They genuinely feared for their safety.
Yes, Greg still went on-set that evening covered with mud to introduce the tape when they played it for the first time (around 8-8:30pm if I recall correctly -- we were in continuous coverage of the damage around Wichita) and I believe that was intentional to make for 'good television.'
But, there is zero indication the tornado encounter and taking cover under the girders of the bridge was anything planned in advance.
Brian Stertz
EF5
From what I've seen on those stronger tornadoes, the inflow side (typically the right side) is the strongest wall of the vortex. I saw this up close and in person as the Edgar NE F3 tornado moved into the farm where Jeff and I took shelter. This was also the sector of the tornado in which the loudest roar was coming from.
Mike Smith
Rich,
Please re-read my post. I didn't edit ANY video. I simply stated that it was edited video that has made it on the air many, many times. I do not believe the full, unedited video has ever been shown on air.
It is not my video to release. As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, the copyright owner is KSNW TV. Please contact them if you wish to see more or make suggestions about the video.
The link to the NWS slide show posted by Greg, www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/papers/overpass.html , shows the tornado in the same location as I would put it in Slide 4.
For those unfamiliar with the location of this incident, please see the stretch of Kansas Turnpike at the center of this map:
www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formt...BDD5T97ED5S3M03tehjNMAuHPi+VWQA==&ambiguity=1
Ted and Greg first saw the tornado just after it passed El Dorado Lake.
Please re-read my post. I didn't edit ANY video. I simply stated that it was edited video that has made it on the air many, many times. I do not believe the full, unedited video has ever been shown on air.
It is not my video to release. As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, the copyright owner is KSNW TV. Please contact them if you wish to see more or make suggestions about the video.
The link to the NWS slide show posted by Greg, www.srh.noaa.gov/oun/papers/overpass.html , shows the tornado in the same location as I would put it in Slide 4.
For those unfamiliar with the location of this incident, please see the stretch of Kansas Turnpike at the center of this map:
www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formt...BDD5T97ED5S3M03tehjNMAuHPi+VWQA==&ambiguity=1
Ted and Greg first saw the tornado just after it passed El Dorado Lake.
David Drummond
Member
The reason this has always been a contentious topic, is because that video probably has single handedly given the general public the impression that hiding under an overpass is a great place to take shelter. Maybe I missed it, but I don't know of any other videos that show that.
I can't tell you how many times I have heard this from people, and they specifically mention seeing it done on video. I see people OFTEN taking shelter under overpasses when I am out chasing. So much so I have even seen the road completely blocked from the parked cars.
While their decision may well have been situation based, and I can't say that, given some circumstances I have yet to encounter, that I wouldn't do the same thing, I don't think there is any doubt that the effects of that video on the general public have been far reaching.
Heidi Farrar
EF3
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2007
- Messages
- 217
http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/briefings/vol3_no2/overpass.html
Joey, here's a link you can reference for your tornado safety presentation, for further emphasis that the highway overpass deal is not cool. I was pretty sure that some of the May 3rd, '99 deaths were attributed to this phenomenon, and here's the NSSL's take on that incident.
Joey, here's a link you can reference for your tornado safety presentation, for further emphasis that the highway overpass deal is not cool. I was pretty sure that some of the May 3rd, '99 deaths were attributed to this phenomenon, and here's the NSSL's take on that incident.
Anna Lindstrom
Hi
I have the video on my computer in AVI format, it´s a part of a program called Tornado Touchdown from the Discovey Science channel. The narrator talks a little but not during the tornado. There is also another story about people taking shelter under an overpass during the May 3 1999 tornado near Oklahoma city .
I have the video on my computer in AVI format, it´s a part of a program called Tornado Touchdown from the Discovey Science channel. The narrator talks a little but not during the tornado. There is also another story about people taking shelter under an overpass during the May 3 1999 tornado near Oklahoma city .
Willie Dines
EF3
Hey Dave,
Thanks for the correction on that buddy as I had that clip on a few various documentaries on tornadoes, including the tornadoes section from the "Wonders Of Weather" series, that was aired in the mid 90's, but I wasn't aware of who the original copyright owners are, and so, I happily stand corrected
Willie
