Identification problem, very weird feature

Joined
Dec 14, 2003
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327
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Connecticut
OK, to start with let me state that what I’m about to describe is by far the weirdest thing I’ve ever encountered in more than two decades of closely observing severe weather and related phenomena. At the time I literally could not believe what I was seeing, and I expect you will be a bit suspicious yourself that it happened like I say it did, but I swear to you this is exactly how it was. I saw this last Sunday, while driving to VT on I-91 northbound, somewhere over the VT line where it starts to get mountainous, but I‘m not really sure of the exact location. It was very late in the day, but it wasn’t really dark yet, I’d guess it was probably 7:30 or 8:00-ish, Eastern time. There were some showers around that barely deserved the name thunderstorm, but nothing that I would call severe weather. This is what I saw…

My first glimpse was from a distance of several miles, in the rain, and what I saw looked like a really, really suspicious lowering, in the shape of an upside down mesa or butte, perfectly symmetrical, looming ominously out of the cloud base, but of course I knew it couldn’t possibly be anything really interesting, so I figured it was either an outflow feature or a wet downburst of some kind. The thing is, it kept its shape as I got nearer, and when I finally got a good close look at it I was just stunned, absolutely astonished. In the cloud base there was a large - maybe a mile wide or bigger - vortex-like feature that was just a perfect cyclonic swirl, with beautifully symmetrical curved bands of cloud that spiraled inward, at the center of which was the lowering I had seen, which looked EXACTLY, and I mean EXACTLY like a large truncated cone tornadic funnel. It was rotating, and there would have been no question what it was except that the rotation was just way too slow to be a tornado. The “funnel†had upward motion in it, but again not like you’d see in a real tube. The whole thing was like a slow-motion tornado, perfect in every respect except for the wind speeds. I pulled over and just stared at this thing, it was moving southward and passed almost directly over my head. I’d say the lowering funnel-like part of it was maybe a third to half way to the ground, much lower if you were measuring from the nearby hilltops, which were really small mountains. It was NOT a transitory formation, it held its shape for the whole time I watched, which was maybe 15 or 20 minutes from the time I first saw it up ahead in the rain. The entire time I kept thinking, “What the heck is this?â€

You may or may not know that I’m one of only a very few chasers who don’t feel the need to document everything on film, I don’t even own a camcorder, but let me tell you, this incident has persuaded me that I definitely need one, it’s just killing me to try and describe this thing with mere words. If you saw a picture of it you’d immediately say funnel, big tornadic funnel, but there’s just no way it could have been. Sure, possibly some kind of landspout is not out of the question, but again, I just didn’t see the kind of motion one would expect with a spout, plus the shape was very un-spoutish, more like a big mesocyclone-spawned tornado. Picture Devil’s Tower upside down, that was the shape it had at its closest approach. Very impressive, but I probably would still have shrugged off the whole thing if it wasn’t for the vortex in the cloud base around it - that was absolutely striking, almost reminiscent of a hurricane seen from space, the same kind of curvature and symmetry. I have absolutely no idea how anything remotely like that could have formed in such a little storm cell, there wasn‘t even any lightning that I can remember, just a bit of moderately heavy rain. I am mystified in the extreme as to what it could have been, and would like to hear what you all think. What was this?
 
Was it very soupy out? I know when you have 80 dews in western IA you can see strange stuff around the bluffs with any fashion of a storm. Persistent lifting slow vortices. I think of those sort of highly saturated days as just being able to show you formations that likely happen in the air often, but you just never see as it never is able to condense to clouds. Yours of course sounds far cooler than the things I've seen off the bluffs.
 
Please, please, please buy a camera and bring it with you when you go on trips! This sounds a really cool feature and I couldn't possibly try to explain it. Remember, just because we live in the Northeast, doesn't mean we are exempt from seeing cool stuff!
 
How high was the main cloud base and what was the general synoptic situation? Were the winds rather light from the north and the air near saturation? And do you happen to remember if you were north of, say, Bellows Falls and passed a larger mountain on your left after you saw the feature? I have a hunch, but it depends on your answers....
 
Was it very soupy out? I know when you have 80 dews in western IA you can see strange stuff around the bluffs with any fashion of a storm. Persistent lifting slow vortices. I think of those sort of highly saturated days as just being able to show you formations that likely happen in the air often, but you just never see as it never is able to condense to clouds. Yours of course sounds far cooler than the things I've seen off the bluffs.

How high was the main cloud base and what was the general synoptic situation? Were the winds rather light from the north and the air near saturation? And do you happen to remember if you were north of, say, Bellows Falls and passed a larger mountain on your left after you saw the feature? I have a hunch, but it depends on your answers....

It was kinda moist, but nothing like the 80's dewps one sees out in Iowa and Nebraska, probably mid to high 60's at best. There was quite a lot of rain, though, which I experienced as quick downpours as I drove through the various convective cells. Cloud ceiling was hard to say exactly, but relatively low, I'm pretty sure this wasn't elevated convection, it was surface based. Not sure about the wind, to really answer these kind of questions I'm going to have to do some research, try and reconstruct the exact atmospheric environment in Southern VT on June 28. Unfortunately it wasn't a severe weather setup that day so I really wasn't paying much attention... But that kind of data can't be all that hard to find, so let me work on that a bit and I'll get back to you with some more details. David, it was almost definitely south of Bellows Falls, possibly even south of Brattleboro, I wish I had made note of the exact location. There were lots of mountains in almost every direction, but no one peak dominated, this was well south of Ascutney. I think I might know what you have in mind, and mountain wave/eddy/mountainado was one of the first directions my thoughts went, but the feature wasn't stationary, it was moving at a pretty good clip, and it seemed to be associated more with the parent cloud than the terrain. If it was in fact some kind of eddy that was getting pushed downwind, it held its features together remarkably well. Andrew, I hear ya on the camera, and I've got my eyes on a nice Panasonic HD camcorder, which I can almost afford... Stay tuned.
 
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A Karman eddy from flow around Mount Ascutney is for sure what I had in mind. Ascutney, for those less familiar is a monadnock (isolated mountain) in southeast Vermont.

Karman eddies travel downstream at I-think-it's something like one-third the stream flow and are quite stable, but my memory is about, oi, 40 years old on that :eek: . Something like an outflow from some convection to the north riding an inversion at around 2k feet could I think do that; but the distance south of Mt. Ascutney makes it less plausible.
 
I think I saw something like that in a valley in Virginia a few years ago. Kind of like a lazy funny cloud.
Melissa
 
Without a picture or video, I can't tell you what you saw. Now, I'm not saying that it was a funnel cloud, but I've experienced tornadic features in conditions where they would seem very unlikely. Case in point; I was traveling back to the Twin Cities are (my home at the time) from my sister's wedding in Milwaukee. Low pressure had tracked across the western Great Lakes the day before, but cooler and drier air had settled that day. There was an upper level low lagging behind the surface low. With the late summer warm surface temperatures, combined with the cold pool aloft, widely scattered showers and a few low topped thunderstorms were breaking out during the drive back. As I was about ten miles from home, I noticed that one of the storms near my house looked like it had a wall cloud. I dismissed it as me just seeing things, as no severe weather was forecast and the storm was just too small. However, as I got closer to home, soon there was no doubt that I was seeing a wall cloud. Within a mile of home, its rotation was obvious, looking somewhat like a carousel. Although my wife was eager to get home, I couldn't turn down a chance to chase. So I headed a few blocks south to a high vantage point and got a few pictures of my first wall cloud. Since then, I've seen a few apparently weak thunderstorms produce very obvious wall clouds in conditions were severe storms weren't forecast and conditions didn't seem favorable. Sometimes, I think that on occasion, the right ingredients can combine at a local level to produce tornadic storms (or at least mesocyclones). Also, it could be possible that mesocyclones may occur more commonly than we know. After all, the average person likely just doesn't recognize such features. Several of the wall clouds that I've observed, people were just going about there business seemingly oblivious to what is taking place overhead. When severe weather isn't expected, spotters and/or chasers aren't out looking, so such events could easily be missed. Below is the Twin Cities wall cloud. It occurred Sept. 9th, 2001
 

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Without a picture or video, I can't tell you what you saw. Now, I'm not saying that it was a funnel cloud, but I've experienced tornadic features in conditions where they would seem very unlikely. Case in point; I was traveling back to the Twin Cities are (my home at the time) from my sister's wedding in Milwaukee. Low pressure had tracked across the western Great Lakes the day before, but cooler and drier air had settled that day. There was an upper level low lagging behind the surface low. With the late summer warm surface temperatures, combined with the cold pool aloft, widely scattered showers and a few low topped thunderstorms were breaking out during the drive back. As I was about ten miles from home, I noticed that one of the storms near my house looked like it had a wall cloud. I dismissed it as me just seeing things, as no severe weather was forecast and the storm was just too small. However, as I got closer to home, soon there was no doubt that I was seeing a wall cloud. Within a mile of home, its rotation was obvious, looking somewhat like a carousel. Although my wife was eager to get home, I couldn't turn down a chance to chase. So I headed a few blocks south to a high vantage point and got a few pictures of my first wall cloud. Since then, I've seen a few apparently weak thunderstorms produce very obvious wall clouds in conditions were severe storms weren't forecast and conditions didn't seem favorable. Sometimes, I think that on occasion, the right ingredients can combine at a local level to produce tornadic storms (or at least mesocyclones). Also, it could be possible that mesocyclones may occur more commonly than we know. After all, the average person likely just doesn't recognize such features. Several of the wall clouds that I've observed, people were just going about there business seemingly oblivious to what is taking place overhead. When severe weather isn't expected, spotters and/or chasers aren't out looking, so such events could easily be missed. Below is the Twin Cities wall cloud. It occurred Sept. 9th, 2001

That's interesting, very nice catch. It's true that we should never dismiss the obvious... So yeah, I suppose what I saw might have been exactly what it looked like. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any way to confirm or deny this after the fact. It's true I never had a chance to actually examine the radar data from that time/place... Unfortunately, the Connecticut River valley in VT doesn't really get sampled well by any of the nearby 88Ds on account of the intervening mountains and the location more or less between radars, so even if there was a low level meso present it might not be apparent on any of the radar data. But it might be worth taking a look, just in case, if I can find a good archived image.
 
Cold Air Funnel?

Here in the east, after frontal passage and usually near a ridgeline, we can get brief slow motion spin ups that sometimes even touch down. Usually nothing more than trees swaying in the wind. Was there a boundry somewhere close by that you know of?
 
It doesnt matter how fast it is spinning. It is a tornado/funnel/whatever regardless if its spinning at 10mph or 1000mph.

Interesting description, and its things like this that make me never leave home without a camera, I wish you had captured it. In my mind Im picturing something like a tornado cyclone, without a tornado. I know someone has an awesome picture of one from Nebraska [Hallam tornado maybe?]
 
Thank you for sharing your experience..
This reminds me of something that I saw in Athens, OH, (SE Ohio) in the middle of June 1974.
The day was especially heavy and "muggy" with no wind and considerable overcast. I was shopping at the grocery store when intuition called me out to look at the sky.
About 5 miles to my west, a formation looking like a black column of smoke loomed over distant hills. I couldn't see the ground because there were significant hills blocking off the lowest section between my spot and there.
However, it remained for several minutes, looked like a nearly black column of smoke, had visible upward movement on the right side (north) as well as an arrow-like protrusion coming out of the right side of the base of the cloud where it connected to. The cloudmass moved to the right in the direction of the arrow.
As it moved slowly northeast, a rumble or two of thunder eminated from out in front of this system. I saw no visible rotation with it, however eerie colors of pink and greenish twinged in with the clouds nearby.
Eventualy the system began to dissipate and I went back to my shopping.
I suspect that this took place over open country west of town. I saw no media reports of a tornado afterwards.
 
Thank you for sharing your experience..
This reminds me of something that I saw in Athens, OH, (SE Ohio) in the middle of June 1974.
The day was especially heavy and "muggy" with no wind and considerable overcast. I was shopping at the grocery store when intuition called me out to look at the sky.
About 5 miles to my west, a formation looking like a black column of smoke loomed over distant hills. I couldn't see the ground because there were significant hills blocking off the lowest section between my spot and there.
However, it remained for several minutes, looked like a nearly black column of smoke, had visible upward movement on the right side (north) as well as an arrow-like protrusion coming out of the right side of the base of the cloud where it connected to. The cloudmass moved to the right in the direction of the arrow.
As it moved slowly northeast, a rumble or two of thunder eminated from out in front of this system. I saw no visible rotation with it, however eerie colors of pink and greenish twinged in with the clouds nearby.
Eventualy the system began to dissipate and I went back to my shopping.
I suspect that this took place over open country west of town. I saw no media reports of a tornado afterwards.[/QUOTE
That is a good descrpition of what I saw in 1997 in Donaldson Indiana. Parallel to it you could see the bottom rotating and 5 little feet like suction vortices running around the base.
Melissa
 
It doesnt matter how fast it is spinning. It is a tornado/funnel/whatever regardless if its spinning at 10mph or 1000mph. ]

Though, I understand the sarcasm in this statement, it must be stated that a tornado is "A violently rotating column of air, in contact with the ground, either pendant from a cumuliform cloud or underneath a cumuliform cloud, and often (but not always) visible as a funnel cloud.
When tornadoes do occur without any visible funnel cloud, debris at the surface is usually the indication of the existence of an intense circulation in contact with the ground. On a local scale, the tornado is the most intense of all atmospheric circulations. Its vortex, typically a few hundred meters in diameter, usually rotates cyclonically (on rare occasions anticyclonically rotating tornadoes have been observed) with wind speeds as low as 18 m s−1 (40 mph) to wind speeds as high as 135 m s−1 (300 mph). Wind speeds are sometimes estimated on the basis of wind damage using the Fujita scale."

That definition is from the AMS glossary of meteorology. Also in the EF scale, although based on damage, EF0 starts at 40mph.

http://amsglossary.allenpress.com/glossary/search?id=tornado1
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/ef-scale.html
 
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