Hurricane Katrina and Global Warming

[Joshua T. Clark]

This is my first posting on the forum. In the mainstream media in the onslaught of Hurricane Katrina the same old environmentalist wackos rehash the global warming myth.

These people whether or not they want to believe it but global warming is a naturally occuring phenomenom which gives us our warm global temperatures. Without global warming and the greenhouse effect the mean global temperature would be about -50 degrees F.

From what my training has taught me is that there is a 20-40 year cycle called the Southern Occilation that is warming the Atlantic at a greater rate that the Pacific. This may be the reason for the higher frequency of long lived, violent tropical cyclones in the Atlantic this year and the previous years.

My advice to these environmentalist wackos, do your homework and not base your opinions on very bad science.

 

[rdale]

Global Warming is not "naturally occurring" - it is the term used to describe the "unnatural" warming of our atmosphere... We can debate what that impact is, but to say that humans have resulted in no change to our weather seems a little suspect.

 

[David Wolfson]

Without global warming the surface of Venus wouldn't be hot enough to melt lead. I don't understand the point. Almost the entire scientific community agrees that it's real.

From what I understand, they also agree that many of the initial effects are focused in the mid and polar latitudes rather than the tropics. I don't think it's contradictory to say that global warming is real but it's too soon to say for sure that the effect on tropical cyclones has emerged from the normal variations from other causes.

 

[Glen Romine]

For clarity, the greenhouse effect and global warming aren't interchangeable terms. The greenhouse effect is a reference to the radiation balance changes caused by certain gases present in the atmosphere that lead to a warmer surface temperature (for Earth ~57 F) than what would be expected for a planet that had no atmosphere at all (~7 F).

Global warming advocates suggest that if you enhance the concentrations of the gasses that are causing the majority of the greenhouse effect (mostly carbon dioxide, water vapor, and nitrous oxide), that it will lead to an increase in the radiation balanced surface air temperature. So, this is sometimes referred to as the 'enhanced' greenhouse effect, or global warming.

Glen

 

[Scott Olson]

Originally posted by Joshua T. Clark
This is my first posting on the forum. In the mainstream media in the onslaught of Hurricane Katrina the same old environmentalist wackos rehash the global warming myth.

These people whether or not they want to believe it but global warming is a naturally occuring phenomenom which gives us our warm global temperatures. Without global warming and the greenhouse effect the mean global temperature would be about -50 degrees F.

From what my training has taught me is that there is a 20-40 year cycle called the Southern Occilation that is warming the Atlantic at a greater rate that the Pacific. This may be the reason for the higher frequency of long lived, violent tropical cyclones in the Atlantic this year and the previous years.

My advice to these environmentalist wackos, do your homework and not base your opinions on very bad science.

From what I understand the Southern Oscialation is not really a cycle on the 20-40 year scale but a more constant between positive and negative. So while it has been shown through data to play a role in Hurricane activity in the tropical atlantic it's not like the Southern Oscialation just started and is the obvious reason for an increase in Atlantic activity. A LA NINA cycle indicates reduced vertical wind shear for the tropical Atlantic as well as several other factors which are helpful to Hurricane activity in the Atlantic. It's not like we are even in a strong LA NINA right now, offically we are still ENSO-NETURAL.

I don't think there is enough data to conclude one way or the other on global warmings effect on Hurricane activity. But, to those who have done significant research and find some linking factors, I don't think I'd call those people wackos. To just say it's impossible for global warming (not refering to natural occuring) to have any impact on Hurricane activity without ever looking at the data is bad science, IMO. Though, I don't know how one could come to an opinion for or against with the lack of data avaliable that would be necessary to make such a judgement.

 

[Justin Turcotte]

I have read that there may be oscillations in the thermohaline circulation (the salt density current) that may effect Atlantic water temps. There are a number of teleconnection patterns like the PDO (Pacific Decadal Oscillation) that need more extensive study. How all this fits into the hurricane scheme is little more than hypothesis.

To say humans are not adding to greenhouse warming is a case of junk science and very poor logic. To deny anthropgenic emissions are not warming the planet is to deny the existence of greenhouse gas. The ultimate question is how much of an impact do these emmissions have? Is it infintessimally small? Is it a degree?... or two? To deny the existence of natural warming/cooling is also junk science as in doing so you deny the existence of Milankovich cycles, natural fluctuations in greenhouse gas (volcanoes, vegetation, storage, etc).

Unfortunately the media and certain politicians hype global warming and it's effects (whether real or perceived). Shortly after the May 3, 1999 Moore, OK tornado there was Al Gore proclaiming that global warming is leading to more destructive storms. After Katrina we heard the same thing from Jesse Jackson, the German Minister, and news columnists.

According to these folks *every* disaster can be blamed on Global Warming. Here is a sample:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial...inas_real_name/
I cannot fathom why these folks fail to understand that disasters happed across the globe long before the automobile roamed the streets. You can even read about great Egyptian hail storms in the bible (It must have been global warming!)

What is making our disasters worse is our increasing population exposed to the disasters. We spend billions living on the water and then spend billions building it back up. We build houses in tornado alley that can barely withstand 90 mph winds. We build great cities in the desert without regard to water needs. If anything, Katrina has caused me to think about how poorly this country is built and how we continue to maintain the status-quo despite repeated blows.

... Do you really think that extra degree of warmth in the Gulf turned Katrina from a Cat 2 to a Cat 5?

 

[Joshua T. Clark]

As destructive mankind's hand is when it comes to environmental issues this planet and the siesmic, volcanic, hydrological, and meterological processess are so incredibly powerful to combat the destruction human kind may bring upon it.

I do not by into to the "Global Warming" theory because the planet has for millions of years gone through periods of warming and cooling. Tree ring analysis of the old growth redwoods and sequoyias in the Pacific NorthWest shows that during the period of time commonly known as the "Dark Ages" showed to the researchers that the global mean temperature was much colder than the present. This was a period of global cooling also-known-as "The Little Ice Age."

This planet is in constant flux trying to achieve an equlibrium. Native Americans that inhabited the area now know as Los Angeles described hundreds of years ago "a brownish haze constantly engulfed the region."
Could this be the very some smog that affects the area today. I know that the region has a geological history with all of the tar pits, siesmic, and volcanic forces the still effect the region today.

All I am trying to imply is that do not be quick to jump on the "Sierra Club" bandwagon but have scientific and open mind to real science instead of what some environmental activists and/or special interest group say is the truth.