ChristofferB
EF2
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 197
I thought I'd start another thread spawned from my thread about the amount of the Dodge City-tornadoes. I have read some blog posts, watched a lot of videos and tried to count the amount of tornadoes from that day. It is difficult because I mainly have to go by my own photos and videos from the day. Looking through them I realize it really isn't easy to make a distinct count on the amount of tornadoes.
First of all, I don't consider "competing" with other chasers or anything like that. I see counting tornadoes as mainly a subjective thing - I mark them down with date and place, with a note on how it happened, how picturesque it was etc.
I realize there are many grey zones in terms on when to count a tornado or not. We all know the definition of a tornado but it would be nice to see how you reason in your own tornado counting (if you count tornadoes), in terms of these examples:
1. The Dodge City second meso (in the beginning) that spawned multiple vortices. At first I thought I saw "3-4 tornadoes" but in the discussion afterwards I learned that since they were under the same meso, it should be seen as one multivortex tornado. I wonder though, I have seen multivortex tornadoes (such as the one later that day) and it always looks like a wedge with fingers rotating around the circulation. In the second meso of Dodge City, they looked more like rope funnels that stayed put, if only for a short time.
2. Tornadoes that stem from the same mesocyclone which drops a tornado, holds up for about 2-3 minutes perhaps with the same lowering/funnel and then creates a new tornado. An example of this is the Dodge City outbreak when that MASSIVE wall cloud first spawns a multivortex tornado that is never fully condensed, it then holds up for 2-3 minutes before it drops the barrel tornado.
3. Tornadoes in storms that you are watching but where you cannot distinguish a tornado while watching. By enhancing photos when you come home you can see you were in fact looking at a tornado. Usually HP or perhaps night time tornadoes. Included here could also be the off case in which you actually managed to photograph a tornado but did not in fact see it.
4. Water spouts
5. Land spouts
6. Tornadoes of which you can only see a portion (i.e. the top part) and cannot confirm by yourself that it is actually touching the ground, but through SPC or other chasers can confirm it was in fact a tornado.
7. Tornadoes of which you cannot distinguish visible rotation on the ground (perhaps because you are too far away) but you can see a funnel "pretty much" all the way to the ground. No confirmation by other chasers or SPC. Usually this applies to spin-ups and short lived bird farts.
Which of these cases would you, personally, count or not count?
First of all, I don't consider "competing" with other chasers or anything like that. I see counting tornadoes as mainly a subjective thing - I mark them down with date and place, with a note on how it happened, how picturesque it was etc.
I realize there are many grey zones in terms on when to count a tornado or not. We all know the definition of a tornado but it would be nice to see how you reason in your own tornado counting (if you count tornadoes), in terms of these examples:
1. The Dodge City second meso (in the beginning) that spawned multiple vortices. At first I thought I saw "3-4 tornadoes" but in the discussion afterwards I learned that since they were under the same meso, it should be seen as one multivortex tornado. I wonder though, I have seen multivortex tornadoes (such as the one later that day) and it always looks like a wedge with fingers rotating around the circulation. In the second meso of Dodge City, they looked more like rope funnels that stayed put, if only for a short time.
2. Tornadoes that stem from the same mesocyclone which drops a tornado, holds up for about 2-3 minutes perhaps with the same lowering/funnel and then creates a new tornado. An example of this is the Dodge City outbreak when that MASSIVE wall cloud first spawns a multivortex tornado that is never fully condensed, it then holds up for 2-3 minutes before it drops the barrel tornado.
3. Tornadoes in storms that you are watching but where you cannot distinguish a tornado while watching. By enhancing photos when you come home you can see you were in fact looking at a tornado. Usually HP or perhaps night time tornadoes. Included here could also be the off case in which you actually managed to photograph a tornado but did not in fact see it.
4. Water spouts
5. Land spouts
6. Tornadoes of which you can only see a portion (i.e. the top part) and cannot confirm by yourself that it is actually touching the ground, but through SPC or other chasers can confirm it was in fact a tornado.
7. Tornadoes of which you cannot distinguish visible rotation on the ground (perhaps because you are too far away) but you can see a funnel "pretty much" all the way to the ground. No confirmation by other chasers or SPC. Usually this applies to spin-ups and short lived bird farts.
Which of these cases would you, personally, count or not count?
My approach is pretty similar to Dan and others. With regard to ones I catch on camera or video but did not see or was not sure about at the time, I count them. After all, I did at least document it photographically. Waterspouts I do not count as tornadoes, not that it matters much since I have only seen two in my life and neither was chasing. Landspouts I do count, though I am not sure I have ever seen one. What I HAVE seen is other kinds of non-supercell tornadoes such as occur with mesovortices on the leading edge of bow echoes, and those also count if the circulation extended to the ground. One thing I do differently from others in my count is have a category of "possible tornadoes" which covers situations like 7. If the NWS or someone else's video confirms what I was looking at was a tornado, I count it. But absent that, there are times when you just don't know and can't decisively say it was or was not a tornado. In cases like that, I count it as a "possible tornado."
