Highway storm shelters

[Kent Heiderich]

I saw these initial plans today and thought I'd pass it along. What are your thoughts for such shelters? My initial thought was alarm that too many people may descend on these during a killer storm.
Thought again & might be a idea for more rural areas ect.
The door would definitely have to be tied into the NWS or local law enforcement to unlock the door to keep out calm evening visitors.

http://www.scottlobaido.com/tornado-shelter-idea/

 

[rdale]

I understand that Kansas has shelters at each toll booth. I imagine this is pretty expensive...

 

[Bob Hartig]

My initial thought was alarm that too many people may descend on these during a killer storm.

Right. Exactly where are those who use such shelters going to park their cars? In the illustrations, I see lots of people sitting in the shelter, but where are all their vehicles? I see just a single bus in one panel and a lone car in another, parked, tellingly, smack in the middle of a traffic lane. Evidently the artist overlooked this concern. But drivers caught in a traffic bottleneck caused by vehicles parked haphazardly beneath an underpass won't be able to ignore it.

 

[Elaine Spencer]

I understand that Kansas has shelters at each toll booth. I imagine this is pretty expensive...

Here is a complete list of shelter locations along the Kansas Turnpike:

http://www.ksturnpike.com/assets/uploads/KTAStormShelters.pdf

The Kansas Turnpike Authority states these were designed for the safety of KTA employees, although in recent years they have been publicizing the shelter locations as an alternative to taking shelter beneath underpasses. These are small, underground shelters.

 

[Mike Johnston]

I understand that Kansas has shelters at each toll booth. I imagine this is pretty expensive...

Kansas also has underground shelters at the service areas along the turnpike. The service areas, offering gas, food, etc. are located in the (widened) median between the opposing traffic lanes so are accessible by vehicles traveling in either direction. They offer quite a number of parking spaces also. The service areas also have weather radar displays inside. Electronic signs along the highway will display any weather warnings in effect and which sections, in terms of mile markers, are affected.

 

[Dave C]

This seems like a horrible idea on so many levels. Parking, access, how to keep wildlife or people out when not in use, etc. If an automatic door was used as depicted in graphics, there is risk of people not getting in and out when they should. I really doubt law enforcement will have time to drive around checking shelters especially if a storm is damaging. The design of the shelter looks debatable too. Seems to me that small debris would easily be circulated around the 'catch wall'. I also agree with the comment that many people would descend on these and rely on them as their shelter, potentially blocking roads in four directions if accessible from the roadway above - this could get many people killed just trying to get to the shelter, or get AWAY form the storm. Last, this would draw people to EVERY underpass during a storm hoping there is a shelter. Its a nice sentiment, but a really bad idea.

 

[Mike Johnston]

I don't know what the cost/benefit analysis is, but the Kansas Turnpike Authority seems to be in a very good position to afford these improvements. In it's last fiscal year report, the KTA earned a net profit of $14.8 million on gross revenues of $90.3 million. It has net assets of $432 million, including over $40 million that it has plowed back into the state's general fund.

In general, tolls are a nuisance, but I for one have never minded paying a toll for the Kansas Turnpike. It is a remarkably well maintained and clean highway, never congested and quite a beautiful place to drive through - especially in the Flint Hills. Besides, the toll plazas are on the entrance and exit ramps, not in the middle of the main highway itself unlike some other state turnpikes (Delaware comes to mind.) So, you basically pay based on mileage from point A to point B.

If nothing else, the storm precautions that Kansas has built into its turnpike make for great PR. It's basically a tangible representation that the state cares enough about its people and visitors to do virtually anything within reason to provide protection from severe weather.

 

[wsanders]

Texas has some

I was at a fairly new rest area north of Austin a couple years ago and the restroom structure was built with very thick concrete walls and a large interior room designated as a shelter. Not sure I would try to race to it and run inside, but it would be great for anyone already at or very near the rest area.

http://www.txdot.gov/driver/travel/rest-areas.html

 

[Linda Y]

I was at a fairly new rest area north of Austin a couple years ago and the restroom structure was built with very thick concrete walls and a large interior room designated as a shelter. Not sure I would try to race to it and run inside, but it would be great for anyone already at or very near the rest area.

http://www.txdot.gov/driver/travel/rest-areas.html

This rest area is close to the town of Jarrell and has a display inside about the monster tornado there in 1997.

 

[Dave C]

In general, tolls are a nuisance, but I for one have never minded paying a toll for the Kansas Turnpike. It is a remarkably well maintained and clean highway, never congested and quite a beautiful place to drive through - especially in the Flint Hills. Besides, the toll plazas are on the entrance and exit ramps, not in the middle of the main highway itself unlike some other state turnpikes (Delaware comes to mind.) So, you basically pay based on mileage from point A to point B.

I'm also impressed with KS turnpike. Having fuel, food and shelter on those islands is nice. Many of the modern toll roads in the west and midwest are really nice and worth the money to avoid traffic. My only complaint with many toll systems is that you have to carry cash or have a pass - ran into that on my first chase in OK this year. Out in Colorado, we are spoiled with the license plate toll where you don't need to do any planning ahead to use the toll system. Just drive on and pay later - car tracked by license plate through the gates without stopping.

I'd have a much different opinion of the shelters if they were NOT suggested at overpasses but at islands or rest stops with ample parking.

 

[David Wolfson]

Subject to professional design engineering, it's my impression that an adequate emergency highway shelter might be made inexpensively with Jersey barriers held apart by steel spacers -- perhaps even as part of a median separator. In an emergency travelers could park in the "breakdown" area next to the barrier and climb into the space. Just a thought....

 

[STexan]

That "empty space" is empty space for a reason, it protects fatalities crashes the remaining 364 days of the year to those who happen to deviate from the roadway at necessary concrete structures. Plus that wall is going to take a beating in the winter as snow plows blow past as 55 MPH, piling the snow back onto the roadway more than likely.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Seems impractical. As others have noted, cars are going to come to a halt right in the roadway, causing the same dangers as if they simply tried to shelter under the overpass. Imagine panicked drivers trying to get to the shelter, pulling up and abandoning their cars right there... The ones lucky enough to get there first may get into the shelter, but everyone else caught behind in the traffic backup are screwed!

Another problem is the automatic door tied to tornado warnings. What happens if power goes out? Even if there is a generator to supply power, what about the connectivity required to receive the tornado warning as a trigger for opening the door?

 

[Warren Faidley]

I believe FEMA recommendations note 5 square feet per person for shelter room. Someone correct me if I am wrong. I don't see this working for many reasons, including the space needed to accommodate bus loads of people. I still think adding electronic highway signs to alert motorists would be the most effective measure. Then again, you would need someone manning the signs who knows enough about storm behavior to issue proper warnings when closing or routing drivers away from danger --- which could be done 30-40 miles away from potential hazards.

For example: (West of El Reno). Danger! Tornado Warning for 1-40 near El Reno. Drivers should exit now and allow storms to pass.

W.