HDV editing

[cedwards]

I am making the swith to HDV this year. I was wondering what software people are using to edit this.
I will convert to standard Definition for my highlights for now.

What I really want is some software so I can capture the High Definition video and export it back out to the camcorder. This way I can make copies of the original video without buying a second HDV camcorder or recorder.

I was looking at the minimum requirements for Premiere and other packages, they require over 3Mhz processor for HDV. Is this a solid requirement or a "recomendation"?

 

[Dan Robinson]

Unfortunately there isn't a good way to do this as of yet. To do anything with HDV in the major editors you have to get the Cineform codec, which is a third-party plugin that converts the HDV (m2T )stream into AVI that the editors (like Premiere) can use. Having a slower computer will work but it will just be slow as molasses and will not play back in realtime. The other drawback is in the conversion from M2T to AVI back to M2T, you have two generations/renders which reduces quality - so you don't have a pristine copy.

There are some small standalone editors that edit m2Ts directly, but they don't support export back to the camera.

Premiere 2.0 is supposed to edit native m2t, but I haven't used it yet and can't vouch for export back to tape. I know that Premiere 1.5.1 can't handle the capture of HDV on most PCs, the Cineform utility is the only way to do it.

So, in a nutshell, currently the only way to copy HDV tapes with no generation loss is camera-to-camera or camera-to-deck. Involving a computer gets into generation loss issues.

 

[cedwards]

Thanks for the fast reply. I was afraid of that. I It looks like I will have to find a cheap second HDV camcorder or find other chasers out there with one and we can get together and dub off copies of the best of the best when we can.

Who all out there is recording in HDV?

 

[John Diel]

Avid / Pinnacle Liquid 7:

For HDV Editing (720p)

Intel Pentium ® 4 Processor 2.8GHz (Hyperthreading enabled)
Microsoft ® Windows® XP Professional or Home Edition (SP1 or SP2)
512MB RAM
AGP 8X Graphics Card with 128MB RAM, DirectX® 9 Hardware Support
OHCI-compatible IEEE 1394 port, Microsoft DirectX ® 9 Software, DVD-ROM drive (required for software installation)


For HDV Editing (1080i)

Intel Pentium ® 4 Processor 3.0GHz (Hyperthreading enabled)
Microsoft ® Windows® XP Professional or Home Edition (SP1 or SP2)
1GB RAM
PCIe Graphics Card with 256MB RAM, DirectX® 9 hardware support
OHCI-compatible IEEE 1394 port, Microsoft DirectX ® 9 Software, DVD-ROM drive (required for software installation)

Has a good rebate for Adobe Premiere Users.

 

[Mickey Ptak]

Who all out there is recording in HDV?

Currens is the only one I know of. The computer capability and editing software was the many reasons I did not go HD. I could have afforded the HD camera but I could not edit it so what was the point? lol.

But again I think Scott shoots in HD or at least he has a HD camcorder.


Mick

 

[Scott Currens]

I am making the swith to HDV this year. I was wondering what software people are using to edit this.
I will convert to standard Definition for my highlights for now.

I have upgraded to pinnacle Studio Plus version 10. It is HD compatible, athough I haven't tested it yet. The only thing I have done is capture video in HD and save video grabs.

Here is a comparison between video captures from the VX2100 and the FX1.
http://violentplains.com/VX2100%20vs%20FX1.htm

What I really want is some software so I can capture the High Definition video and export it back out to the camcorder. This way I can make copies of the original video without buying a second HDV camcorder or recorder.

This is exactly what I plan on doing but I haven't tried it yet.

I was looking at the minimum requirements for Premiere and other packages, they require over 3Mhz processor for HDV. Is this a solid requirement or a "recomendation"?

Studio Plus 10 recommends 2.4 or higher prossessor with 1GB RAM required for HD editing. DirectX 9 or higher graphics card with 256 MB is required for 1080i HD.

Tim Samaras shot HDV in 2005 so I believe he may have some experience editing that format.

Scott Currens

 

[Bob Hall]

I broke down and purchased Sony Vegas. It is a great program. It has a lot of high end features that make it really easy to edit a small package together. It supports my HDR-FX1 like a champ. The bad news is that to render one minute of video in 1080i HD with the highest quality setting requires 5 hours on my reasonably fast laptop.

You can download a free 30 day trial at: http://www.sonymediasoftware.com/download/...ep2.asp?DID=583

 

[Tyler Allison]

I broke down a purchased Sony Vegas. It is a great program. It has a lThe bad news is that to render one minute of video in 1080i HD with the highest quality setting requires 5 hours on my reasonably fast laptop.

holy cow...is it memory or CPU intensive you think?

-Tyler

 

[John Diel]

Seems that most "Professional" or high end NLE's (Non-Linear Editors) are extramely CPU Cycle intensive. Of course the best ones run on Mac's and are designed with that in mind, however, we all know that Wondows is somewhat CPU intensive by itself. Most companies recommend that you kill all background processes even on Prosumer NLE's when using Windows.

The good thing is, Dual Core CPU's and DUAL CPU systems are starting to come within reach of the high end amatuer crowd.

I've used Sony Vegas on some very basic recomplies and it's very CPU intensive. Basically, you really don't want anything else running.

I just "Upgraded" my system with 2GB of RAM and somewhat faster CPU (AMD Athlon XP 2600 vs an older Duron), and a new motherboard.

I thought I rocked until I started doing some editing and DVD compiles. It's certainly faster, but not near what I was hoping for.

 

[cedwards]

Ulead® MediaStudio Pro 8 claims (I think) to do what I want.

Extensive HDV Support
Batch capture HDV from all the latest HDV camcorders and decks. Edit HDV either in full-resolution lossless native format. Record your finished HDV projects back to your camera or output to WMV-HD

Their system requirements for HDV editing are:

# Intel® Pentium® 4 3.0 GHz or higher with Hyper-Threading technology
# Microsoft® Windows® XP (Service Pack2 for HDV camcorder support recommended)
# 1GB of RAM (2GB or more recommended)
# 7200 RPM IDE hard disk or above

My question is can you capture and output to the camera without having to edit and thus not needing quite as fast of a computer?
I have a 1.68Ghz laptop with 2GB ram right now.

 

[Bob Hall]

Vegas allows you to capture the raw m2t transport stream which is identical to the broadcast mpeg II stream that almost every television station receives off of their satellite. This is an intensive transfer, but it does take place in real time. A friend claims the latest Windows Media Player can play this natively without rendering. I cannot confirm this. Youtube.com can accept this raw stream as an upload without need to render. Video LAN is a free tool that will allow you to view the m2t stream on your computer without rendering. It can be downloaded here http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

Several raw m2t streams have been upoladed to Youtube.com without any rendering. You can view them at www.gobob.com.

 

[Dan Robinson]

The M2T stream uses about the same bandwidth as DV AVI. This is possible since M2T (HDV) is essentially an MPEG format straight from the camera, so it's already undergone compression to reduce its size whereas DV AVI is for all intents and purposes 'uncompressed' from the camera to the computer.

So, utilities that can capture the M2T data stream from the camera without trying to display the HD preview video (Cineform HDlink) can do this with the same efficiency as DV AVI. Premiere (with Cineform) and others usually choke when trying to capture the M2T stream because they are simultaneously trying to convert to intermediate AVI. I would assume that any editor that natively captures the raw M2T stream without trying to preview it or convert it would do just fine on any computer that already does OK with capturing DV since the raw datastream bandwidths are the same.

The Ulead software is one I'll have to try. I've gone through quite a number of trial software packages with no success of just being able to chop up an M2T for tape archiving without it wanting to re-render the file. HDV is a good format, but it is pushing the limits of compression and you'll want to avoid *any* re-rendering for archiving stuff.

 

[Bob Hall]

To reiterate what Dan said; this is so pushing the edge. We as storm chasers push the edge. Without going into really technical details; the GOP (group optical pixels) of this format only update every 16 frames. If you drop a single key frame, you loose at least ½ a second of video. Under the best of conditions, this format is gorgeous. This is bleeding edge stuff. The bandwidth requirement between formats is nearly identical as Dan points out and is the reason they can use the the same tape to record.

 

[Stuart Robinson]

I am glad that we have started this thread ~ I own a Europe PAL version of the FX1 which I am running with premier Pro 2.0 (with any plug-in’s) My PC is a Dual core Intel 3.2Ghz monster but so far I am having issues with exporting clips out for the web.

The DVD stuff is just fine, in fact the quality is fantastic! But once I try to compress the clips so that I can share them over the web my problems start. They are ether HUGE or the quality is poor? I have tried importing into PP2 using HDV as well as DV export but still the WMV clips are disappointing.

Overall my old Sony handheld DV cam and Microsoft Movie Maker is doing a better job right now ~ all I want to do is share a few clips out onto the web but still have the raw tape shot in HDV for my 2006 DVD?

Any suggestions???

 

[Eric Treece]

I have been using Pinnacle for a few years and bought Version 10 since I shot HD all last chase season. For some reason or another I could not download any video shot on the FX-1 onto my computer for editing. The program would never recognize the camcorder. Pinnacle did not have any answers for me on this problem. So running out of time before I had to head back to work and get trapped on a ship I took a chance and got the Sony Vegas software. This would download the video, but since I was so accustomed to using Pinnacle, I didn't want to have to learn to use another program, so trying to do the lazy mans way I thought I would convert the video from whatever format Sony uses to Mpeg 2.......and edit it using Pinnacle.............wrong. Pinnacle doesn't recognize the Sony format and the Sony program would not just convert it to the Mpeg. Anyone got any ideas on this? I just downloaded a patch from Pinnacle this winter, but have not had the chance to re-try a download from the FX-1. I actually kind of regret shooting in HD last year.......as of now. Hopefully that will change.