Hail Research

[Chris Heater]

Not sure where to put this...so move it if need be. As some of you may know...we will be building a hail guard over spring break. While i'm building it mainly for protecting my vehicle (and windows of course) i'd like to know if there is any research to be done on hail. I would assume there is, but wanted to ask the storm chasing community, especially since some of you are involved with research. I'm going to have a strong hail guard, so why not use it to its full ability? Thanks!

 

[Wes Carter]

I would guess that you probably won't have any takers within the scientific community. In order for research data to be recognized the whole process of data gathering has to be conducted in a somewhat controlled manner.

There are a lot of things to take into consideration. First, what responsible university is going to get someone off the street to place themselves and their POV into a hail shaft? Second, why are they going to rely on someone off the street to acquire data when that person has no accountability whatsoever?
Third, when there are students working on their degrees and staff involved in the research, why wouldn't they use them to acquire the data?

The relationship between Sean Casey and Josh Werman is atypical. Don't expect to just become an instrument is a major scientific study without going through some hoops.

My opinion, your best bet would be to go to school. Check out the College of Dupage. I think it is in your area and they have an excellent program from what I've read.

IMHO, any 'research' that an individual does might even produce some worthwhile data. But without the proper controls and accountability, none of it will be taken seriously. Think "Richard Heene".

 

[Larry J. Kosch]

Dominator is "Rhino Tough"

I understand that Reed Timmer had his "Dominator" coated with the same tough poly coating they put in truck beds. This was done, at considerable expense, to protect the outer surfaces of the "Dominator" from severe hail damage.

They did a major overhaul during the winter season. Looks about the same in terms of color, but has different looks both from the front and the back.

I thought about what they did to the "Dominator" when you asked about hail damage research.

Here's a link to the thread that list Youtube videos showing the Dominator overhaul:

http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=22742&highlight=dominator

 

[Chris Heater]

Well Wes you bring up some good points. I would kind of figure you would have issues getting the data to the scientific community. Oh well...I can still take video and anyone who wants to see it can watch it I guess

Larry, the poly coating like what the Dominator did isn't what i'm going to be doing. I'll be using golf netting to surround my car in it, and pull it "tennis racket" tight. The break strength of this netting is 240lbs per strand which I would believe would be enough. For the windows, we'll cut the netting and use Lexan so we don't wind up losing visibility. Once it's built...we'll be able to take on softball sized hail with no problems!

 

[Tyler Allison]

That's been tried before. Doesn't work unless the guard screens are well off the car exterior since you can never get the netting tight enough to withstand the beating.
Example...
http://www.facethewind.com/hail_guard/

Best hail protection is getting an education so you know when to move. Don't need protection then.

Unless you like getting hailed on of course.

 

[Bryan Stokes]

Chris,

I hope you take what I'm about to say constructively, because I really am trying to help. I will also preface it with a disclaimer: I have only been chasing for two years (read: newbie) and I am not a researcher.

Since you are new to chasing (like me), why not spend more of your time and energy on studying severe weather and understanding where to be (and where not to be) in a storm? Storm chasing is so much more than light bars and intentionally trying to get inside a hail shaft.

I could be completely wrong in this assumption, but it seems to me that you're trying to grab attention by labeling yourself as a "researcher". If you are really serious about weather, and maybe even intend to study it in college one day, your focus should be on 1) educating yourself to the best extent possible and then 2) taking baby steps in the field and applying what you've learned from your studies. This is where the rewards are, at least for most chasers. Then once you've really got your forecasting and observational skills down pat (this takes a few years), you might be able to break off and research specific things, But until then, it's best to work on being a solid and responsible chaser, of which I know that you want to be.

Again, I'm just trying to help steer you in the right direction. I hope you don't take it the wrong way.

Bryan

 

[Chris Heater]

Everyone has been taken by surprise before with hail. Just a way to protect our vehicle. The way we'll build it the net will be pulled tight enough to let the hail hit it, bend slightly then rebound away. I guess we'll just try it out and see how it goes. If it fails, we know it doesn't work and try something new. The way we did this is very cheap so why not do it?

Bryan: I do want to study it in the field, and going to college currently for it right now. You may be right that i'm getting a little ahead of myself...i'm just a little enthusiastic and fascinated by severe weather. We've been in quarter or smaller hail but nothing too big. The hail guard we're building it mostly just to protect my vehicle (especially the windows) from damage or blow-out. With the hail guard there...I thought i would just ask if there is "research" to do, we might as well since we'll have the ability to do it without the damage

 

[Lanny Dean]

Chris,
Reed and company were (past tense) participating in hail research back in 2007, I believe it was for United Airlines. That is the only "study" that I am aware of.
Of course, Reed is educated and has his degree, I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone to take your research seriously without some sort of backing which you are highly unlikely to get without being in some sort of a met. program.

Some who have already posted have given you some great ideas already such as going to school, you even have a "newbie" who has given wonderful advice by suggesting that you spend more time learning how to forecast, structure and the like and then take baby steps with your new knowledge. This is sound advice!

Might be a good idea to really listen to what others are trying to tell you. Don't get me wrong, by all means you should build your hail gaurd and see how well it does.
I wish you the best of luck this season.

 

[Jerry Prsha]

Chris,
Reed and company were (past tense) participating in hail research back in 2007, I believe it was for United Airlines.

I remembered it as being "Boeing." They still might be interested.. You never know!

 

[Chris Heater]

Chris,
Reed and company were (past tense) participating in hail research back in 2007, I believe it was for United Airlines. That is the only "study" that I am aware of.
Of course, Reed is educated and has his degree, I think you will be hard pressed to find anyone to take your research seriously without some sort of backing which you are highly unlikely to get without being in some sort of a met. program.

Some who have already posted have given you some great ideas already such as going to school, you even have a "newbie" who has given wonderful advice by suggesting that you spend more time learning how to forecast, structure and the like and then take baby steps with your new knowledge. This is sound advice!

Might be a good idea to really listen to what others are trying to tell you. Don't get me wrong, by all means you should build your hail gaurd and see how well it does.
I wish you the best of luck this season.

I understand what you and others are saying. If im coming across as not taking the advice, im sorry but i am. Im currently in college starting their met major. Once finished i hope to go to OU.

The hail guard is mainly for protection...but I figured i would ask if there is still research to be done. Didnt really think about the difficulty of getting it to the research community until someone brought it up. Again everyone, thanks for the advice! I appreciate it

 

[Kiel Ortega]

There actually is a need for research for hail observations, especially when dual-pol comes online. However, there's not really a need for a single point observation (with the exception of reporting it for NWS verification) since we have that already: Storm Data. Once dual-pol is up we've got some plans in the works here at NSSL to combine SHAVE and field observations, like those which were done during JPOLE.

 

[Lanny Dean]

I remembered it as being "Boeing." They still might be interested.. You never know!

Thanks for the corrections, Jerry. I thought it was United but was not sure.

Of course if Chris was interested in helping, can anyone help point him in the right direction as far as contacts or the like?