Free Video

[Joey Ketcham]

Originally posted by David Drummond
On tripods, one thing I have been told by several producers recently, both at our station and with several other outlets is that they PREFER the non tripoded stuff for news and programs.

Gads!!!! I want to beat those producers over the head with 2x4's now, not actually but they obviously don't understand the concept of good Videojournalism.

I worked for a CBS affiliate for 4 years and I always trained new Videojournalists to use tripods unless an extreme situation came along that prohibited them.

If a producer told me to not use a tripod, I would beat him with a wet noodle.

 

[Greg Stumpf]

Originally posted by David Drummond
On tripods, one thing I have been told by several producers recently, both at our station and with several other outlets is that they PREFER the non tripoded stuff for news and programs. The way it was put to me, is that the hand held, COPS style shooting, looked more \"real\" than the tripoded stuff. That the tripoded almost seems like it didn't happen to viewers.

This is exactly what I harped upon in past posts (last year). It was 1999, after the May 3 outbreak, that I realized that professionally-shot tripoded video is no longer the main attraction. I marketed my video through several outlets, and nobody snagged. Instead, the video that sold consisted of non-tripoded, out-of-focus, and screaming crap, a la Service J style.

It is because of this reason that I have pretty much given up aggressively marketing any more video, and instead enjoy my video and stills for myself and my family and friends, and for charitable causes. Having that burden off my shoulders also lends to a much more enjoyable storm chase experience.

BTW - although I don't agree with their viewpoint 100%, this makes for some interesting reading:

http://www.stormeyes.org/tornado/cancer.htm

g

 

[John Diel]

I think when they are talking about "non-tripodded" video, Most news agencies are looking that the shoulder mounted ENG style cameras and not the hand held camcorders we all have. Though that vey well could be a mistake on my part in the translation.

A shoulder mounted large camera is much more stable than a hand held camcorder. No doubt. I try to shoot everything with a mount of some sort. If I'm hand holding the little camcorder, I make sure that I'm leaning up against something, even if it's my truck.

 

[Gabe Garfield]

Originally posted by Greg Stumpf
BTW - although I don't agree with their viewpoint 100%, this makes for some interesting reading

Edwards/Thompson make some very interesting points. Although their view of the situation is somewhat cynical, I think it is true to the nature of humans.

Perhaps the only solution for this situation is to stick to your guns for what you think you deserve (if you sell your video) or to just forget about it altogether (if you don't sell video).

Gabe

 

[HankBaker]

What i am about to say is my experience and my opinion.

News worthy footage for a TV station has value. You have to tell the station your selling the video and that it is for "local" use only, (not to be sent on the SAT) and also give them a time limit, let say 7 days for them to use the video in a local broadcast.

News worthy footage does not have as much value as Documentary footage.

If one station has video of a news worthy event and another station has no video of that event. Because the tv market is extremely competitive. That is what makes the footage more valuable.

I would not accept anything less than $200.00, that would be the minimum. ( I think it should be higher but lets be realistic.)

The time and effort it takes to get it to the station will cost you $50.00 in time, gas, etc. Plus you probably spent $50.00-100.00 in gas that chase day anyway , not to mention wear and tear on your vehicle.

At that price it would be for local use only and they only have 5-7 days to use "my" footage.

Keep in mind that tv stations do not concern themselves with copyright, they seem to try and fall under the cloak of (Its News worthy).

Documentary footage, however going rate is 30.00-50.00 a second.

A tv station or even TWC will call you in the field and tell you to go up link your video at a particular station.
What happens is they try to get you to commit and make the effort to get to the uplink before they discuss price, then after a person has made the effort they lowball him for his video and the person says well I am here anyway ya I;ll take that.

My suggestion is to negotiate price before you commit to going to an uplink or TV station.

The attitude, this will never work because people will give away footage, is the very attitude that creates the enviroment for stations to even expect free or cheap video.

We are on the front lines of footage we should be able to set a fair value on footage.

Think about how much a station spends on an employee a vehicle and a chase team, they cannot be everywhere all at once. So $200.00-$300.00 is cheap compared to what they have spent that day. Especially if they dont have any footage.

Hank

 

[Justin Turcotte]

I have only taken photos of storms but will add the mini-dv recorder this year. I am inclined to believe an item is worth what the highest bidder is willing to pay for it. Mr John Q Public who shot a tornado going through town shouldn't give the video away for free as it is in his best interest to get something (even if below "market" value) for the footage. Some posts in this thread seemingly refer to storm video as shares of stock where you have high liquidity at a nearly fixed price. I prefer to think of it as an item on eBay that goes to the maximum bidder. If there is a bunch of the same item up for bids than odds are you will not fetch a premium. This is life. Now if your item has a unique quality that the others don't have than you will get a higher bid... say tornado video with cows flying. I would think the money is still there for video that isn't the same "cut and paste" tornado in a field. It's probably time to face the fact that most storm video no longer diserves the premium of a Warhol or Picasso. The availability of free footage is simply another thrust with the dagger. I have no qualms with anyone who chases with the motivation of profit so long as they accept the fact that they have competition. If they aren't making money than it is time to find a new profession.

 

[Kiel Ortega]

Originally posted by Gabe Garfield+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Gabe Garfield)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Greg Stumpf

BTW - although I don't agree with their viewpoint 100%, this makes for some interesting reading

Edwards/Thompson make some very interesting points. Although their view of the situation is somewhat cynical, I think it is true to the nature of humans.

Perhaps the only solution for this situation is to stick to your guns for what you think you deserve (if you sell your video) or to just forget about it altogether (if you don't sell video).

Gabe[/b]

I agree...and to further it, I think storm chasers should remember that people are affected by tornadoes and drop the greed (along with the news stations)...ideas like the "Storms of 2004" DVD are awesome...Red Cross (or some other non-profit org) gets donations and chasers can show they care for just a little more than their own fame and a 5 sec clip on TWC

 

[Craig Maire II]

$$

I personally don't chase for the $$ but for the thrill, beauty, etc. of the storm. If I had to live off what I made chasing storms I would be homeless...lol I love sharing my videos/pics with the public and I'm not gonna lie, I loved it when my footage was shown on TWC, etc. on 05/08/05. I didnt get paid much but the compliments that I got from friends, family, strangers, etc. made me feel like a million bucks and TWC helped me share my video with the whole world. I consider my NUMEROUS accurate and timely storm spotter reports and the video that I DONATE to the many NWS offices as charity. 8)

 

[Marc Grant]

Re: $$

Originally posted by Craig Maire II
I personally don't chase for the $$ but for the thrill, beauty, etc. of the storm. If I had to live off what I made chasing storms I would be homeless...lol I love sharing my videos/pics with the public and I'm not gonna lie, I loved it when my footage was shown on TWC, etc. on 05/08/05. I didnt get paid much but the compliments that I got from friends, family, strangers, etc. made me feel like a million bucks and TWC helped me share my video with the whole world. I consider my NUMEROUS accurate and timely storm spotter reports and the video that I DONATE to the many NWS offices as charity. 8)

Why not do what you do for a living as a charity instead of getting paid for it? I don't know how you make your living but suppose there is some kid who just loves your line of work and offers to do it for charity because he enjoys it. Now multiply that by the number of people giving away video and still images for free and see what your job would be worth.

 

[mikedeason]

Re: $$

Originally posted by Marc Grant
Why not do what you do for a living as a charity instead of getting paid for it? I don't know how you make your living but suppose there is some kid who just loves your line of work and offers to do it for charity because he enjoys it. Now multiply that by the number of people giving away video and still images for free and see what your job would be worth.

That's a rather poor analogy since there may only be one or two people who regularly post to this forum who actually make a living selling weather related video.

Cut Craig some slack. There's nothing wrong with what he's doing just as there's nothing wrong with people trying to get the most money for their work as possible. And if you think it's cutting into your profits then maybe you should offer a product that will demand a higher market value.

Regards,

Mike

 

[Darin Brunin]

Marc, I can't believe that you would make comments like that. Afterall, thats what most people are out there to do is to chase storms and not to make money. I commend you Craig for staying true to yourself and enjoying what you do because when it all comes down to it a few extra bucks aren't going to make that big of a difference. And to someone is who is apparently only into chasing because of money (Marc). You're gonna get bored after a while because there's not a lot to be made.

 

[Ryan McGinnis]

Re: $$

Originally posted by mikedeason
And if you think it's cutting into your profits then maybe you should offer a product that will demand a higher market value.

Mike

Exactly! I assure you, if your video is interesting enough, it will command a price. The New York post paid out a cool mil to some Japaneese tourist who snapped a photo of the Concorde lifting off in flames.

Of course, what chasers consider "interesting" and what publishers consider "interesting" are often different things. The public wants to see handheld video of tornadoes less than a hundred yards away picking up freight trains filled with nuns. Chasers generally want tripoded footage of tubes. Problem is, everyone in the world knows what tubes look like, whereas flying nuns are something altogether different.

If you really want a million bucks for your video, I suggest you "mistakenly" drive your car into the path of a tornado. Film yourself sailing in big circles somewhere over Kansas. You'll probably die, but really, that's what the public wants to see. Otherwise, just accept that shooting weather video is a hobby, not an industry, and enjoy the sport.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

Ryan said...
"If you really want a million bucks for your video, I suggest you "mistakenly" drive your car into the path of a tornado. Film yourself sailing in big circles somewhere over Kansas. "

I'm working on it. I haven't done it yet this year because I am holding out for a wedge. My avatar picture was the closest I got. I was doing 60mph getting ready to blast right into the beast, but shortly after that picture was taken I hydroplaned and hit a telephone pole.

Like some of you were saying, there are not very many people that are actually chasing for a living, any money is just an added bonus that helps to offset costs. I think the thing that really irks chasers on the money issue is that when you work so hard for something and it means so much to you, you are almost insulted that someone else under values it(at least that is the way I feel). I like to share my video and get a little name recognition more than the anything else, but that doesn't mean I will sell to anyone who is willing to pay a little. It is a matter of principle. To me, my video is priceless and I have a hard time accepting some guy trying to low ball me on it. I would rather only sell to the networks that are going to give me a fair price.

 

[Marc Grant]

Re: $$

Originally posted by mikedeason+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mikedeason)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Marc Grant

Why not do what you do for a living as a charity instead of getting paid for it? I don't know how you make your living but suppose there is some kid who just loves your line of work and offers to do it for charity because he enjoys it. Now multiply that by the number of people giving away video and still images for free and see what your job would be worth.

That's a rather poor analogy since there may only be one or two people who regularly post to this forum who actually make a living selling weather related video.

Cut Craig some slack. There's nothing wrong with what he's doing just as there's nothing wrong with people trying to get the most money for their work as possible. And if you think it's cutting into your profits then maybe you should offer a product that will demand a higher market value.

Regards,

Mike[/b]

Mike and Darin...... why the negative spin on this? It wasn't meant to be and my apologies if anyone has taken it that way, especially Craig. I asked a simple question and used what Craig does for a living to illustrate my point. He can chase for the love of it. That's what I do.

Darin, I guess you may not know but I make my living as a professional photographer and I've never sold a storm video or still shot, nor have I tried. I chase for the same reason as Craig does but I do not and will not give my work away because it does nothing but undercut a market in which many Americans rely on to make their livings. Although I'm not in any sort of union, look at it the same way you would a union meat cutter buying his meat at a non-union grocer.

For those of you who think $200. is too much to ask for a news clip, try pricing a 30 second spot on that network. One last thing, Mike is right about offering a product that is in higher demand. That's the answer to making a living at it is being able to consistently be able to produce high quality work. That in itself will set you apart from the competition and will resolve any haggling over prices.

Marc

 

[Marc Grant]

Originally posted by Michael Gribble
Like some of you were saying, there are not very many people that are actually chasing for a living, any money is just an added bonus that helps to offset costs. I think the thing that really irks chasers on the money issue is that when you work so hard for something and it means so much to you, you are almost insulted that someone else under values it(at least that is the way I feel). I like to share my video and get a little name recognition more than the anything else, but that doesn't mean I will sell to anyone who is willing to pay a little. It is a matter of principle. To me, my video is priceless and I have a hard time accepting some guy trying to low ball me on it. I would rather only sell to the networks that are going to give me a fair price.

That's my thoughts in a nutshell. The digital age has made everyone who owns a camera or mini cam of some sort a photographer or videographer. Most of them work a 9-5 and don't need the money so they give their work away for the glory of it for whatever that's worth. I have a close friend who shot the very first images of Madonna with her newborn but I doubt if anyone knows his name. He's not well known but does make a good living at it. I also have a friend who shoots for the Philadelphia Eagles and probably not one of you knows his name but he makes a good living at it so to those of us who do it, it's about loving what we do and being able to make a living at something that we actually enjoy.