FEMA / evacuation policies

[Anonymous]

Um yeah, totally serious. My advice is everyone shouldn't have the same destination

Think about it - most of the people fleeing are poor. Many might not have reliable vehicles. They may not have relatives all over the US, or even credit cards to use. You must be out of touch with how things really work in the real world. Funny that i own/run a PC hardware forum that's extremely popular and i will probably never be a member of this site, i found it on a google search about the hurricane- (the only thing i know about weather might be some info on monitoring sats but that's from an older gov. job). Anyway, best of luck to all in the DFW area. [/quote]

 

[Geoff Boyle]

Um yeah, totally serious. My advice is everyone shouldn't have the same destination

Think about it - most of the people fleeing are poor. Many might not have reliable vehicles. They may not have relatives all over the US, or even credit cards to use. You must be out of touch with how things really work in the real world.

First of all, it would be wise to assume this member is referring to people who are in a financial position to travel to somewhere else in Texas. Personally, I think these people should have been more prepared for this situation. Using your common sense, it isn't hard to predict these problems (gas prices/shortage, traffic jams, and space/shelter issues) before hand.
However, I believe that FEMA should have had a better coordination plan drafted for this type of impending disaster. I also believe that a military unit should have been deployed, or at least preparing for deployment, 48 hours ago.

Second of all, stating that most (at least 2/3) of the resedentual evacuees are poor is a very misguided generalization. Of course, I can understand if you meant that most people couldn’t afford the current gas prices.

 

[Anonymous]

referring to people who are in a financial position to travel to somewhere else in Texas. Personally, I think these people should have been more prepared for this situation

The majority of people in Houston are poor. Just like NOLA. "These" people? Hmm. Should they have been more prepared? Or shoudl they have been evac'ed in "stages" instead of all at once? As it is now, there will be hundreds of thousands on the freeways. out of gas. Tired. Need to use the bathroom. Hungry. Pissed beyond belief. Some sick. No, i beg to differ with you. The issue here will be "how" they were evacuated. Imagine - 2.? million cars most of them out of gas because they have to move at a snails pace, out on the open stuck on the road. What do you think is going to happen?

... Must be their fault for "not being prepared"?

 

[Rob_Davis]

However, I believe that FEMA should have had a better coordination plan drafted for this type of impending disaster

Not FEMAs job. It is a local and state responsibility. FEMA only assists with funding and requested administrative resources.

I also believe that a military unit should have been deployed, or at least preparing for deployment, 48 hours ago.

Several were. In fact, military aircraft have been flying in and out of Houston non-stop for over 24 hours evacuating people, especially hospital patients. How many does it take to make you happy? But since you seem to be an expert on these matters, where do you recommend they be deployed? The path of the storm?

This isn't Louisiana. Our state and local leaders actually know wtf they are doing here. Planning is taken care of and is working well. The simple fact is, you cannot put five million people on two highways and expect them to move quickly. No amount of planning, troops, or wishful thinking is going to make it happen.

 

[Anonymous]

Jeff. Understood. One final comment on this and i'm done here. Back to my own forums.

ou cannot put five million people on two highways and expect them to move quickly

Very true. Which is why from now one evacs will likely start earlier when they see these things developing further out in the gulf, and in stages instead of all at once.. Especially given the possibility of seeing at least two of these every year. That way you would already likely have 1 million down the road before the next stages get ready to get out of town. When you do it all at once like this it will cause an enormous "bog down". But it is ....better than nothing. And better than the possible cluster in-town where water is drowing people and people can't get to anything.

As to the effect here in DFW i would imagine they will be bad as compared to previous bad storms. Very bad. but on the grand scale as compared to what may happen in Houston and certainly Galveston we should be ok. Maybe some of us without power for 1-6 days. Some might lose cars, houses in lower lying areas. Trees and foliage all over the place. Power lines down. Maybe 1-5 foot of running water in places (which will send all cars quickly downstream or scatter them everywhere). The bigger story IMO will not be the weather here in DFW but the people that have to stay here or elsewhere because they have lost their homes. Potentially millions will need to relocate all over the US. There are so many layers of this story to unfold within a week's time. I wish everybody the best.

 

[Tim Vasquez]

(Split this from the Dallas thread)

FWIW, earlier I did think that there was little EM and FEMA could have done to stem the tide fleeing Houston, but after seeing the Transtar cameras this morning with deserted freeways, I do think the EM hierarchy could have done something to foresee what was essentially an 18-hour "hyper rush hour". On the other hand maybe no one anticipated it, but perhaps, still, lessons can be learned.

Tim

 

[Anonymous]

I agree Tim. I just started a topic on our hardware forums (PC) and it's getting major hits now. Our site is based in Dallas as well. I'm sure as of today there will be massive deployment of help to those highways with traffic. The Bush admin very much can't afford this evac to go to badly after the NOLA debacle. I'm sure they will get some big trucks out there with the gas and water and get these people going. Hopefully panic and any mishaps will be kept in check as best as they can.

 

[B Ozanne]

Better to have the traffic jams on Thursday than today. It looks like the places most at risk are traffic free, like Houston. I'm sure there is still traffic, but the gridlock is now a long way from the coast.

 

[Bill Tabor]

A couple of comments:

1) You can get your military and resources ready for deployment and deploy in ancillary locations, but you don't want to put them in the path of the storm otherwise they will be victims too.

2) I think the concept of forecasting the exact path of a hurricane and actually properly and effectively evacuating 5.1 million people in advance of that "supposed path" presents some very difficult problems.

a) I still don't think forecasting is completely accurate enough - example it was originally going to hit pretty far west of Galveston, and then the Galveston / Houston metro area, and now looks like the TX/LA border.

B) It is hard to conceive of evacuating that many people just because you 'think' it is possible they could be in harms way. Alternatively it is somewhat unconsciable not to. However the time to get that many people out safely is a pretty long period of time, and that may be outside the time window of predicting the accurate forecast path.

c) B (above) means that to be truly safe you would have to evacuate all these people many times - any time there was a hurricane that comes anywhere near close. The result is people would usually evacuate needlessly, inconveniently, and the costs to them and the national, state, and local infrastructure would be immense.

d) But if you don't do C (above) then what happens if you don't evac and it really goes directly toward the people? Then they are really screwed.

I guess my point is...whatever you do - some people are going to look stupid and perhaps unprepared. But when facing mother nature there a actually limits to what our capabilities are in regards to anticipating, reacting, and preparing.

Even now, had the HOU/GAL forecast track verified then most likely there would be thousands/millions stuck on the 100 mile traffic jam toward DFW on the road, and in the direct path of what was a Cat 4 / 5 hurricane. Fortunately for us the storm is weakening and has moved off the major corridors of traffic to the east.

 

[Geoff Boyle]

But since you seem to be an expert on these matters

I never claimed to be an expert on the matter, especially since I live in a country where these kinds of disasters are handled differently. I was just stating my opinion, which you, as always, seem to take offence at.

Not FEMAs job. It is a local and state responsibility. FEMA only assists with funding and requested administrative resources.

Yes, I forget to consider that. Again, I'm used to things being done differently.

How many does it take to make you happy?

Our state and local leaders actually know wtf they are doing here. Planning is taken care of and is working well. The simple fact is, you cannot put five million people on two highways and expect them to move quickly. No amount of planning, troops, or wishful thinking is going to make it happen.

Considering the shear number of people evacuating, there should be more deployed to assist state and local officials. I say this because I watched those same officials pointing fingers on the Wednesday evening news. Our guest also seems to think that things could have been handled better.

Personally, I think that the gas problem was the only thing that wasn't properly dealt with.

where do you recommend they be deployed? The path of the storm?

Yeah, that's a great idea. :roll:

"These" people? Hmm. Should they have been more prepared? Or should they have been evac'ed in "stages" instead of all at once? As it is now, there will be hundreds of thousands on the freeways. out of gas. Tired. Need to use the bathroom. Hungry. Pissed beyond belief. Some sick. No, i beg to differ with you. The issue here will be "how" they were evacuated. Imagine - 2.? million cars most of them out of gas because they have to move at a snails pace, out on the open stuck on the road. What do you think is going to happen?

... Must be their fault for "not being prepared"?

I think there is plenty of blame to go around; and I do agree that the gas situation should have been handled better.

Though, I have to ask, if you heard that a hurricane would quite possibly show up at your doorstep, and if you had the means to do so, wouldn't it dawn on you to run out before everyone else and fill up your car, a bunch of gas cans, and buy a hefty supply of food and water (if you didn't already have a disaster preparedness kit)?
I mean, as one member already stated, you will eventually use that stuff anyway.

But, of course, that doesn't mean people should be left to fend for themselves (not saying there’s going to be a repeat of that).

One final comment on this and i'm done here. Back to my own forums.

Feel free to stick around, this section was mostly intended to inform the public about the unfolding events.

 

[Miriam Lawrence]

You cannot put five million people on two highways and expect them to move quickly

Very true. Which is why from now one evacs will likely start earlier when they see these things developing further out in the gulf, and in stages instead of all at once.. Especially given the possibility of seeing at least two of these every year.

I entirely agree that staged evacuation would seem to make much more sense. In fact, I'm rather amazed that the 4th largest city in the US did not have that in the plan. I can't fathom how they expected the entire city to leave en masse.

However, starting evacuations much earlier than this one started would probably result in much more big-picture harm than good given how difficult it is to accurately predict landfall that far out. Every time emergency officials are perceived as "crying wolf," they will increase the chances that people will disregard evac orders the next time around. That's the nasty knife's edge forecasters and EM folks walk. Call it too early and you risk damaging your credibility and, as a result, long-term pubilc health interests. Wait too long and you risk mass casualties.

Now THAT's pressure

 

[Brandon Clement]

I never claimed to be an expert on the matter, especially since I live in a country where these kinds of disasters are handled differently.

Exactly how do they handle major hurricanes in Canada :?:
Sorry couldn't resist :lol:

So far it wasn't perfect, but it at least the people are getting out of there. South La has had a lot of practice in the past few years with Opal, Georges, Lili, Isadore, Ivan and Katrina. Each storm presented major traffic jams and gas shortages in certain area and each time a commitee was put together to come up with solutions to make everything flow much smoother. During Ivan it was taking the people in NO 15-16 hours to get to Jackon, Ms up I-55 and it wasn't even a total evacuation like Katrina (which it was taking people 4-6 hours for the same trip). Considering the past problems with evacuations, NO actually did a great job of controlling traffic to get people out. They just failed when it came to helping those that could not help themselves. So considering this was the first time Houston has tried to evacuate they have done OK. Houston is much more populated, wasn't nearly as prepared and they are working off the top of their heads since their disaster plans have never anticipated this. To top it off the aftermath of Katrina is so fresh on everyone's mind that Rita has caused a panic instead of an organized evacuation.

I would expect the Houston area to completely rework their existing disaster plans after this storm and do some major studies for future events such as this.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[Anonymous]

I can't really blame them to much. Evacuating 4.5 million people in 48 hrs is very hard to do when the transportation system isn't designed for such movement.

1. They could have had a little more foresight at least two days in advance that the need for gas would be greater and have moved tankers into place and put out the need before the day of evacuation.

2. The debacle at the airport signifies more training needs to be taken to let employees know what their role is in a Hurricane. Im not sure some of the people that didn't show up didn't know that they were supposed to stay.

 

[Anonymous]

However, starting evacuations much earlier than this one started would probably result in much more big-picture harm than good given how difficult it is to accurately predict landfall that far out

Good Point. However, if in fact it does appear to be sometihng that happens every year then staged evacs will have to happen - or .... investment in getting the majority of people permanently moved away from coastal areas ... or much better flood protection in those areas. EG: Able to withstand cat 5 canes somehow. It appears that global warming may the the culprit, and if so, this trend may continue.

 

[Anonymous]

Somehow the quoted part and my text got reversed as i was posting. Reverse those two and you have my post. Sorry about that.