FALSE REPORTS FROM UNEXPERIENCED CHASERS

[Jason Boggs]

Another reason why chasers that don't know what they're looking at shouldn't give reports. This is a classic example.

Chasers looking at the leading edge of a storm with a nice shelf cloud.
FALSE REPORTS

At 6:00, a chaser reports a large wall cloud with several funnels. Not even close to being a true and honest report.

At 8:04 they call a gustnado a landspout which is another false report. They obviously don't know the difference between a shelf cloud and a wall cloud. I'm not dogging these chasers for their lack of experience, but they surely should not be calling in reports that aren't accurate. One of my big pet peeves.

 

[Jody Radzik]

It could have been honest, honestly ignorant.

 

[Steven Williams]

I think 'wall cloud' is the most misused term in weather watching/storm chasing. Thats a great clip anyway, even without a tornado.

 

[Jason Boggs]

I think 'wall cloud' is the most misused term in weather watching/storm chasing. Thats a great clip anyway, even without a tornado.

Oh yea, it was a great looking storm, but is sure wasn't tornadic from their vantage point.

 

[Adam Lucio]

Ill never forget that storm. It was a tornado producer at one point though. There was allot going on in there. The main tornado touched down near the town of Kyle, after that the storm turned into this massive beast with an incredible gust front.

I think the term funnel gets overused allot too. I see allot of photos and videos of grungy, pointy lowerings that IMO don't resemble funnels at all but get labeled as such. Its tough out there sometimes...all the reason why we need to help educate each other.

 

[Shane Adams]

I agree with Jason. There's no shame in being inexperienced, because we all were at one point. I'll never belittle a chaser for being a rookie or newbie and not knowing much. However, it's imperative that rooks and newbs watch and listen more, talk less. A rookie chaser has no business calling in detailed reports (other than an obvious tornado, hail, high winds, or flooding). Drives me nuts to hear the "heavy wall cloud strong rotation" type of reports from a guy who's been out there one or two years. They're still learning basic structure/behavior knowledge,and need to keep their eyes and ears open and mouths closed. Discuss amongst your own group what you think you might be seeing....but do not open up the mic or dial the cell phone and start spouting off things you don't know.

New chasers are not the issue. Their tendency to believe they're further along than they really are is the issue, which IMO is a direct result of technology. I shared the field back in March of this year with a newbie chaser, on a very benign day. To hear this guy rattle on about every little cloud or wind gust, you'd think he was Tim Marshall. I knew right away there was no point in even trying to educate this guy; he already knew everything.

Sometimes I feel like a chaser is better off just putting themselves into the frying pan through mistakes caused by inexperience. I've tried to give advice but in recent years it seems newbs get offended more than they appreciate the effort. IMO it's not worth the headache in most cases, because it's hard to convince a guy who got lucky with GR3 a few times that he doesn't really know what he's doing out there. Maybe sending the newbs out with no computer would be the best tool? Sure worked for a lot of veterans I know.

 

[Brian Stertz]

The best way to learn is to read the sky...and keep in mind that persistence is the one thing to remember when watching rotation or funnel...that may or may not become a tornado. Storm structures will always have some differences, and being able to discern how storm structures can evolve is one thing that always makes chasing a learning hobby. I learned by doing and recognizing patterns...think that should always supercede being a radar junkie.

 

[Tim Shriver]

Shane said" Maybe sending the newbs out with no computer would be the best tool? Sure worked for a lot of veterans I know."

Sort of like sending out someone to fight a structure fire with no training isn't it?

I learned about storms on my own "way back then" there was not much in the
way of formal training. I am still learning many things and glad I lived through
some of my earlier mistakes.

But with all the sources, classes and mentors out there
now the new chaser/spotter should make use of them. But then the mentors
need to be willing to share their knowledge and not hoard it to themselves nor
get upset when someone asks a question or makes an honest mistake while learning.

Time in the saddle is a must, but you first must teach them how to get on the horse
and not fall off.

Tim

 

[Shane Adams]

Sort of like sending out someone to fight a structure fire with no training isn't it?

Apples and oranges.

I learned about storms on my own "way back then" there was not much in the way of formal training. I am still learning many things and glad I lived through some of my earlier mistakes.

Perhaps I'm the exception not the rule, but there was never a danger issue when I was a newbie. I had enough common sense and where-with-all to know when things were getting rough, well before I was in trouble. Even a rain-wrapped wedge gave me enough signals to pull over before we drove into it. I didn't know anything about the schematics of what was ahead of us, but I knew enough from just looking out the windows to realize something wasn't right. The fact chasing could be dangerous to me as a rookie never occurred to me...if it had, I wouldn't have tried chasing, because I am not a daredevil. The only issues for me were not seeing anything because I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

But with all the sources, classes and mentors out there now the new chaser/spotter should make use of them.

You can teach someone terms and rules, but you can't teach experience. As I've said for years, application of said knowledge comes only from experience. And experience only comes from having to be responsible for decision-making on storm chases. A person can ride along for years and do nothing but enjoy the view, and then you throw that person out there alone and they're lost. "Bringing along" new chasers only slows their progress IMO, because it's delaying the inevitable: they are going to have to chase and make important decisions on their own before they will ever start to learn how this is really done. But in fairness, it's a different world in 2009 as opposed to 30, 20, or even 10 years ago. I don't think it's realistic to expect newbies to develop the same skills newbies developed years ago, because their initial exposure (aka "training") is far different than it was when the sky was the blackboard (not a computer screen).

Kids today ask about what software they need, not how to tell visually what's capped and what's not. They wanna know how to design and build their equipment mounts and what scanners to buy, not where in the storm you might expect a new tornado to develop. It's a different breed.

But then the mentors need to be willing to share their knowledge and not hoard it to themselves nor get upset when someone asks a question or makes an honest mistake while learning.

Sharing knowledge only works when it can be applied. Newbs are quite reactionary and get worked up many times when you try to give advice or constructive criticism. Not because they don't want to be influenced or because they want to do it all on their own, but because too many of them think they know more than they do (see my previous post).

Time in the saddle is a must, but you first must teach them how to get on the horse and not fall off.

I disagree. To be a true chaser, you have to make decisions. There is no rulebook or peptalk for how to handle real-time, real-world storm situations when you've never done it before. I think a lot of people who call themselves chasers would fail on their own; you have a ton of carpooling groups out there who are lead by one person, usually someone in the frontseat. IMO, being a career ride-along and never stepping out on your own isn't a chaser. I'm not saying you shouldn't ride along, but there's a lot of people doing it who call themselves chasers, who have no clue what's going on without the others. A chaser, IMO, is an individual who can "take the controls" should something happen to another person. Kinda like a co-pilot in a plane VS a flight attendant; one can do the work, the other is just taking up space.

 

[Adam Lucio]

Im with Shane on this,

It annoys me that any rich kid can decide one day he wants to be a chaser, spend his not-so-hard-earned money and load up on all this technology he knows little about and drive to a storm. Back then if you drove to southern NE and the action shifted into KS you had no way to view the MD saying so...and you'd sit there in NE eating potato chips all day.

Maybe I'm just biased because I took the long and slow approach though. Memorizing definitions doesn't make you smart...it just means you have a good memory. Until you've been involved in all kinds of different scenarios you don't get the actual knowledge first hand.

On the other side chasers SHOULD make use of all the resources possible, but this seems to cloud their judgement a bit and make them think they're farther ahead then they really are. Being able to take constructive criticism is a dying ability it seems. Everyone is so quick to think they're right 100% of the time these days.

 

[Karla Dorman]

I'm inexperienced. To me, a SLC might look tornadic, but why I'm here, to learn from other chasers. If I have questions to what I'm looking at, I'll always ask for your opinions, to help me understand storms/structure better. And I do appreciate your help and honesty.

 

[Jeff Hawkins]

Valid points of view on all sides.
I'm just going to share that this past year was my first year formally chasing, and I did learn from the experiences I had (despite it being a bust year in general). My choosing to chase was not one that I developed myself however.
When I decided I was going to just "do it", I showed up to this forum looking for help, having no presuppositions about what I knew or what I could do. I came here being honest about myself, knowing that I knew nothing, and seeking the knowledge, learning, and also meeting others who shared this new-found passion I had.
My actually turning that interest into reality wasn't by my own design though. It was the result of contact with others here with experience, who were willing to share and teach me what they'd learned themselves.
I will specifically mention Fabian Guerra here, who responded willingly to my first calls for assistance and answered many of my "total newbie" questions very willingly and turned me onto the 'safety' factor right away, when it comes to chasing. We talked on the phone quite a bit, and he both answered my questions, and probed my attitude, I'm presuming because he wanted to know if I was 'the real deal'. Apparently he must've felt so, because over the next few weeks,
he was willing not only to answer questions, but was also willing to let me shadow him on some chases too. He specifically got me to get the "Storm Chasers Handbook", which proved to be an invaluable teaching tool.
Sadly, the actual chases with Fabian never happened because he was killed while avoiding a deer on westbound I-80 on his way to meet up with others to chase. I was supposed to meet him in the target area, and I got there, but he never did. I only found out after I got home what had happened. (And actually, he invited me to go with him on this trip, but I had to decline because I'd already committed to work that Saturday).
IMHO, he represented the spirit of chasing and what it means to be a true storm chaser. Both teacher and student at the same time.

 

[Ryan Moats]

I agree with Jason. There's no shame in being inexperienced, because we all were at one point. I'll never belittle a chaser for being a rookie or newbie and not knowing much. However, it's imperative that rooks and newbs watch and listen more, talk less. A rookie chaser has no business calling in detailed reports (other than an obvious tornado, hail, high winds, or flooding). Drives me nuts to hear the "heavy wall cloud strong rotation" type of reports from a guy who's been out there one or two years. They're still learning basic structure/behavior knowledge,and need to keep their eyes and ears open and mouths closed. Discuss amongst your own group what you think you might be seeing....but do not open up the mic or dial the cell phone and start spouting off things you don't know.

New chasers are not the issue. Their tendency to believe they're further along than they really are is the issue, which IMO is a direct result of technology. I shared the field back in March of this year with a newbie chaser, on a very benign day. To hear this guy rattle on about every little cloud or wind gust, you'd think he was Tim Marshall. I knew right away there was no point in even trying to educate this guy; he already knew everything.

Sometimes I feel like a chaser is better off just putting themselves into the frying pan through mistakes caused by inexperience. I've tried to give advice but in recent years it seems newbs get offended more than they appreciate the effort. IMO it's not worth the headache in most cases, because it's hard to convince a guy who got lucky with GR3 a few times that he doesn't really know what he's doing out there. Maybe sending the newbs out with no computer would be the best tool? Sure worked for a lot of veterans I know.

As a new chaser myself, i absolutely agree with you. We all start out somewhere and we all earn our experience and knowledge.

Though i've given reports to spotternetwork, i've been quickly learning to slow down and make sure what i'm seeing is accurate to my fullest ability and expectations of others before hitting that report button.

As a newb, i'm all in learning mode and simply learning from others such as you. I also agree if i become a idiot and fail in understanding and learning of meteorology, chasing, anything weather, definitely be in the very best interest to be very much in the bleeders section than down on the field coaching if that makes any sense.

Simply, i'll watch and enjoy and keep learning, but i won't be the big shot trying to get on tv and freaking out on the so called tornado, wall cloud, cloud... i saw and not wasting the time of the people who do know what there doing.

 

[Paul Hadfield]

One thing I learned early on and still apply is don't be afraid to admit uncertainty. Using expressions like "possible" or "might be" is much more valuable to the warning process than making an absolute statement that doesn't verify on the other end and simply creates more confusion. On May 30th of this year I had just such an experience where I saw a very suspicious feature but was simply too far away to be sure what was actually happening.

This is how the storm appeared at my vantage point from a distance of several miles, note the area of interest.

The 300mm brought the scene into clarity yet there were two things I could not determine for being so far which was a.) rotation and b.) ground level activity due to horizon blocking.

I reported this feature as a wall cloud but also pointed out those aspects I was not able to determine. ILX concluded there wasn't much happening on velocity so a tornado warning was not issued but nevertheless, they monitored it closely. I of course did not blow my credibility with sensational reporting.

I couldn't see the video for this thread which is probably another prime example for 2009 as to what the community as a whole is not, but just wanted to reiterate that caution and honesty are just as if not more valuable than experience.

 

[Jason Boggs]

I saw this scene this year on June 8th near Stamford, TX. It looks like a tornado, or at least a funnel that's very low to the ground, but I was at least 20 miles away from it. I cropped the picture here, so it looks closer than it really was. The storm was tornado warned, but I hesitated to call it in because I couldn't discern any rotation. The feature went away after a few minutes. Could this have been a tornado? Sure it could have, but I wanted to leave it up to someone with a better and closer view to call it in.

I have seen many tornado look a likes, but this one may be the best if it was not indeed a tornado.