DeLorme Street Atlas 2010 - Avoid!

[Michael Paré]

Just wanted to throw this one out there. Probably stating the obvious here, but for those looking for mapping software to use while chasing, I would recommend avoiding Street Atlas!

I was out chasing with friends last week and was primarily using SA 2010 for navigation to target areas and during our chases. For a product version "2010", you'd expect they would update the maps - but several times the software did not show bypasses that had been built around towns, showed paved roads that were actually dirt, and vice versa. I could go on - but there were many discrepancies/inaccuracies.

I was out chasing on 5/22 around the Bowdle wedge (Awesome, btw!) but luckily I was not stuck in the mud later on as several other chasers were, so I will not speak directly from that experience but I understand that "certain mapping software" showed a road where all that existed was a field. It wouldn't surprise me if those chasers were using Street Atlas and wound up finding one of its map flaws at the most inopportune moment of all.

Luckily, we also carried paper maps (as backup) for all the states we expected to chase in, and we ended up hitting all of those states! These paper maps trumped the software hands-down, correctly showing dirt roads as dirt, and paved as paved, etc. Worth the investment.

Not only was the software a disappointment, but the LT-40 GPS it came with was a no-go. Well the GPS itself worked OK natively with SA, but DeLorme's serial port emulator stopped working after about 45 minutes of use. Fortunately, before our chase trip, I re-equipped with a Globalsat BU-353 and GPSGate - a winning combination and proved very reliable.

I had an install disk for MS Streets and Trips 2010 as well but didn't get to try it out. Anyone have any success with that, or is it just as out-of-date as DeLorme? Next time I'm in Yarmouth, ME, I'll be sure to give DeLorme my feedback...

Hopefully this info will prevent someone from making the same mistake(s) that I did and save you some trouble.

 

[Ric Burney]

A real eye-opening situation here indeed. I know lots depend on Delorme products as well as MS S&T. If you have data in an area be sure to check out google maps and bing.com maps. Both of them also have the occasional flaw also but if you can get to them you can compare those with your mapping software and maybe be able to pick a confident route and avoid problems.
Paper maps and Atlases are a must-have on any trip or chase.. you never know when the computer is going to weird out on you.
I am also a big fan of the BU-353 / GpsGate combo.. works very well, very stable.

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

I started a thread this week asking where to find an alternative to using the DeLorme Road Atlas with the DeLorme LT-20 GPS puck.

Someone had a fine suggestion (I forgot exactly who - but thanks!). The alternative is ditching the Road Atlas software and using the Franson GpsGate express (cost is $12.95 & 14 day free trial) - which will hook it up to two applications. Such as GR3 AND Google Earth.

Now the only question remains: Can Google Earth be trusted as well? The chasers in SD chasing almost lost their lives due to the inaccuracies of Delorme Street Atlas. Can anyone say that Google Earth is any better or worse? Anyone willing to trust their lives to it - as well as chase partners in the same car? Is there any real credibility with ANY mapping software for that matter?

For that matter; is Microsoft's Streets & Trips worth the risks?

My biggest gripe with the DeLorme Street Atlas to this day - is that it is verrrry clunky and massively bloated with software that can hardly be realized and generally slows up the machine. I think it also uses up 2 gigabytes of hard drive space too; but don't quote me. Now that its inaccuracies have nearly cost the lives of people in the real world - I can say that it is worse than garbage - IMO.

 

[bvassmer]

Now the only question remains: Can Google Earth be trusted as well? The chasers in SD chasing almost lost their lives due to the inaccuracies of Delorme Street Atlas. Can anyone say that Google Earth is any better or worse? Anyone willing to trust their lives to it - as well as chase partners in the same car? Is there any real credibility with ANY mapping software for that matter?

I think at least Google Earth/Maps has a better data set than the other programs with their StreetView feature. At least this should have sent up some flags when the cars got to places that didn't match up with the maps.

But you would think the newest version of S&T or Delorme would be updated. This doesn't seem to be the case. Using my copy of Delorme 2004 seems like I would have the same info everyone else would have, without investing in a new version

 

[Scott Weberpal]

What people need to understand is that Delorme doesn't have the resources to fix roads on their maps that maybe one or two people use. I honestly doubt that anyone except the farmer with that land used that road, therefore it is pointless for them to fix their maps. Even so, SA2010 was released late last year, and considering the road was just recently plowed over, there would have been no time to make the correction.

The software also isn't intended to show dirt roads are dirt and paved roads as paved. The different roads on the maps as based on maintenance levels, not what the roads are made of. Virtually every back road in southern Wisconsin is paved, yet they show up with the same thing gray line as dirt roads in other states; why - because they are all local/county maintained roads. The maps are not intended to show the difference between paved and unpaved.

Every map is going to have inaccuracies. The problem was not with the software, the problem was the road was plowed over within the last year.

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

I'm sure that SD incident that happened was an isolated incident seldom to ever be repeated. But what it does bring to mind just how much digital mapping can really be trusted. Depends what you are trusting it for. I'm thinking a Garmin might be better utilized and just use the GPS puck for the GR3. Not sure the Garmin would really be much better.

I do know that the DeLorme Road Atlas software -as it is - is a program that only use when I am lost. Can't stand it though. Google Earth requires a constant internet connection - doesn't it? Does the Streets & Trips software work like the Street Atlas? Is it better - and how so? Will it work with a DeLorme GPS puck?

 

[John Wetter]

All of the mapping resources mentioned so far source all of their material from a couple companies. This topic comes up annually and yes, GPS mapping is awesome, but you have to also think about it as a tool. Don't bet your life on "Bob's Road" actually being there. I've used SA2010 without issue this year and have used SA ever since 2006. I think the 2010 version is actually a very strong product and noticed many updates in the maps and some other features that have really helped manage my chases so far.

It seems silly to dismiss a whole software application because a mud road in Northern South Dakota ended up being plowed under into a field...

 

[Bryan Stokes]

Why is everyone suddenly against maps and mapping software? There are hundreds, if not thousands of inaccuracies out there! It's just the way it is. In regards to the recent incident, it's not the map's fault. There used to be a road there! The farmer simply plowed over it.

It happens.

Bryan

 

[bradjones]

For a beginner what mapping software would one recomend?

 

[Brandon Jenkins]

For a beginner what mapping software would one recomend?

I've used both Delorme Street Atlas and Microsoft Streets and Trips and I would have to say I enjoy the interface on Streets and Trips better. Both programs, however, provided accurate guidance in most situations so you really can't go wrong with either one.

 

[Skip Talbot]

Now the only question remains: Can Google Earth be trusted as well? The chasers in SD chasing almost lost their lives due to the inaccuracies of Delorme Street Atlas. Can anyone say that Google Earth is any better or worse?

Google Earth requires an internet connection and thus completely impractical for chasing. Chasers cannot afford to lose navigation on the whims of their cell signal.

Anyone willing to trust their lives to it - as well as chase partners in the same car? Is there any real credibility with ANY mapping software for that matter?

I stated this in the stuck in the mud thread, but I'll say it again here. You can't trust your life with ANY maps/mapping software. Streets and Trips definitely suffers from the same data inaccuracies as Street Atlas. It might show some roads better than Street Atlas, but I have definitely seen instances where both of them are off. In addition to mapping software, paper maps, even if they are indeed more accurate will not show flooding/obstructions, which are more likely impede chasers.

I'm sure that SD incident that happened was an isolated incident seldom to ever be repeated.

There are tons of inaccuracies in the maps. This could happen on any given chase. Finding that a road isn't there or is in less than ideal conditions is a common occurrence.

The bottom line is that mapping software can be an extremely valuable chase tool, but is not trustworthy enough to stake your life on. As a pilot, it reminds me of the aircraft's fuel gauge. It does a fairly good job showing how much gas is in the tanks, but you never, ever trust it. You always plan your flight out, compute your fuel burn, and make sure that enough gas goes into the plane beforehand. Likewise with chasing, you should have your route and escapes planned out ahead of time while keeping in mind that the software/maps could be wrong. What can you do and where can you go if that's the case? If the solutions to those questions are very limited, should I be where I am on this storm?

 

[Jesse Risley]

I'm sure that SD incident that happened was an isolated incident seldom to ever be repeated. But what it does bring to mind just how much digital mapping can really be trusted.

I have Microsoft Streets & Trips (2006), Microsoft MapPoint (2009) and DeLorme Street Atlas (2009). Every time I have been out on the Plains there has been at list a minor inaccuracy; it's not as seldom as you might think.

It doesn't matter which program that you choose to use; they will all eventually lead you astray on the Plains.

 

[Jason Foster]

If the operational aspects of 2010 are similar to 2006...I'll stick with it. Hell...I'm still using 2006. I doubt the data/accuracy difference from then to now is nominal in contrast to actual conditions. I found more issues with things like road closures and construction issues (Pilot car kill joy...LOL).

I know in the latest aspect of chasing, avoiding paved roads (to avoid the crowds), is increasingly important, but expecting any software or paper map to be accurate with dirt roads, even years later isn't a good idea at all.

Getting to know how to read the plains visually to enhance your navigational skills will avoid many situations. I, for instance, don't trust any road to go through that doesn't have telephone lines on one side if it's part of the grid. Paying attention to creeks and streams on the map is important too. Look for dips and valleys visually, which often mean a blockage. Knowing how ranches work with cow grate things and that some roads run through ranches not just at the properties edge is important. Knowing how to read the terrain and knowing what clues there are will enhance your chase skills far better than any software or other technical tool you chase with.

 

[James Hammett]

Google Earth requires an internet connection and thus completely impractical for chasing. Chasers cannot afford to lose navigation on the whims of their cell signal.

There is a way to download the needed maps for an area in advance for "offline" use. I've never used it this way however so I can't attest to its practicality or usefulness.

I, for instance, don't trust any road to go through that doesn't have telephone lines on one side if it's part of the grid. Paying attention to creeks and streams on the map is important too.

Excellent points...I also pay attention to mapped creeks and streams if flash flooding could be an issue particularly with the backroads.

 

[Michael Paré]

All important lessons learned here.

If anything I'll take away from this, its:
ALWAYS carry paper maps, and use them. I'm really glad we had them on our chases. They were invaluable.
Use multiple map sources. Might be more difficult to do this when there are only seconds to make a decision - but studying the road networks in your target area ahead of time can help - and as some of you mentioned - just looking out for usual things like if a dirt road has telephone poles by it or not, and being aware of streams/rivers is also helpful.
Google Earth/Maps can be really useful if you have good data especially if you can bring up the satellite view and there is good detail. I believe you can pipe GPS output to Google Maps/Earth using GPSGate.

In retrospect, I realize that it would probably be just about impossible to have up-to-date map information on every little back country road all over the plains. I'm still not that thrilled with DeLorme (mostly because of the larger errors I found on more major roads/highways) but I'll probably continue to use it (in conjunction with paper maps and other map products such as Streets and Trips) on future chases. It's clear that I or anyone would be a fool to depend on a single product for mapping decisions.