Chasing Could End

Hey, I'm all for it. After all, what harm could massive amounts of microwave radiation beamed earthward from satellites possibly do?

Frankly, I'm not going to worry too much about the demise of stormchasing--at least, not due to some hare-brained scheme like this. It's like a mouse trying to stop a tiger by farting in its face.
 
All of this is a VERY old idea... Doswell wrote about the idea (that occured to many different people in the past) of using bombs/explosives to distrupt tornadoes a decade ago:

http://www.cimms.ou.edu/~doswell/ChasFAQ.html

It's a dumb idea, it will never happen. It is also very clear that this guy has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to meteorology...
 
Even if you could stop a tornado would it really be in the best interest of everyone to stop it? Sure peoples lives might be saved and the economic damage will be reduced. But, I suspect it will end up like wildfires. Wildfires were surpressed for decades and this allowed all of the undergrowth to build up. Now when a fire burns through this there is nothing that can be done to stop it or even slow its progress. The only option left is to flee. To me this is something that shouldn't be messed with if theres even a slight risk of creating 'super' storms and I wish this would be expressed more. However, the NWS has started to take this stance. After the hurricanes in Florida last year a lot of people came up with ideas for stopping hurricanes. The NWS told them to stop wasting their time on this and to work towards better goals like improving building codes so that houses in hurricane zones can sustain higher winds and such.
 
I think it would, if it could be done at acceptable cost and without other negative environmental effects. It's different with hurricanes IMO that are important contributors to the transfer of excess heat poleward. With tornados it's not necessary to erase them completely, but merely to keep the circulation aloft from getting pinned to the ground. If you could do that, you'd eliminate almost all the negative human effects while preserving almost all of the positive thermodynamic effects, whatever they might be.
 
"If it is Uneven ... Even it out!"

Nature has tornadoes for a reason, to "balance" out the transfer of heat energy in the atmosphere. It is a natural process that must occur, stopping it or slowing it often will have even worse outcomes down the road ... The "butterfly effect" does apply here too!

First of all, microwave beams and explosives are not enough to have an effect, at least in my opinion. This will be like spitting into a blast furnace and expecting the fire to go out - It won't happen.

Collateral damage - Explosives can hit a nearby town or farm, or people, such as storm chasers (no pun intended), whether or not the tornado was controlled. Even if the tornado being targeted is in remote areas, noise and shock waves from the explosives can crack windows and plaster at great distances, as well as annoy people.

Now a 100-Megaton hydrogen bomb, yeah ... That might affect it, but blow away a good portion of the earth and atmosphere with it too, not to mention making the entire central US radioactive for the next 500 years.

RF Burns - Effects of microwaving or warming an RFD is not known, and like the explosives, probably will not have an effect. Also, a tremendous amount of power will be required, so special equipment such as a nuclear power pack on a vehicle (or satellite, aircraft, etc) would be required. Not something the governor of Oklahoma would be too happy about!

What happens if the high power microwaves hit a town or people, livestock, etc. under the supercell?

Anyone remember the "microwave oven" scene from the 1993 SCI-FI / Horror movie "Ghost in the machine"?

You probably don't want to remember it ... A person's kitchen turned into a microwave "oven" and RF power heated everything in it, including shriveling fruits in dishes, food jars and bottles exploding, running arcs along hanging pots, things catching fire, and uh-um a grim, gorey, and detailed portrayal of the person in the kitchen agonizingly turning into boiling flesh and exploding.

Watch where you aim that HERF (high energy RF) beam.

In reality, at lower microwave levels, people and lifestock may not be boiled, BUT, electronics will. That's what HERF weapons are being developed for - To inflict disabling and costly repairs to electronics. Such experiments will effectively hose every radio, video camera, laptop a chaser (and the people in a town as well) could have!

Now, if some of these "tornado fighting" tactics do work, and a tornado is prevented - Great! Right? Well, until a year later the energy that would have been released, and did not get that chance to be released, causes a weakening tropical storm in the Pacific to just barely have enough strength to intensify (otherwise it would have weakened) to the point where it becomes better organized, becomes a typhoon, then the largest typhoon on record, rakes the Phillipines, then China, then Japan, and kills a couple of 100 thousand people ... I would stick with the tornado instead!

Save your money, and taxpayers money, and just "leave it alone."

I posted another post where I suspected some electronic issues may result from "experiments", if they are being done, since my chaser partners and I have ALWAYS had major electronics issues while chasing in the plains. And excerpt from the post is below...

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In Enid, Oklahoma back in May 2002 at a Super-8 Motel, Eric Nguyen, Scott Blair, and myself found a vehicle parked in front of the motel. It was from Los Alamos (NM) and had the "seimenns" and "advanced radiological atmospherics" labels on it. It had a key-swipe in the coded-entry door locks and was armored. In the back was an elaborate collection of electronics and "pipes" coated with foil, all in a "faraday cage" of grated wire surrounding the (reactor?) compartment, and a sign saying "danger: if light is on - nuclear containment failure". This truck was topped with some very strange looking radar dish labeled "high energy pulsed radar". The people for this vehicle left business cards with us, and after months of emailing / phoning with little or no responce, Eric Nguyen got hold of one of the people at Los Alamos and was told very little about what the vehicle is used for. He was told the parts of it, but NOT what it does with a simple "I can't disclose that" answer.

Is this a radar vehicle, or is it a type of HERF (High Energy RF) beam generator - Maybe to warm an RFD to prevent (or hopefully not, enhance) tornado formation? I think it is the latter.

I also know that HERF wrecks havoc with electronics. It burns out components, even erases or de-activates credit cards and memory. Its intention is to disrupt electronics equipment in the first place. Now, if this is being used around a supercell, say from an aircraft or vehicle like the one I described, an inadvertant passage of the HERF beam to personnel on the ground can cause such issues with electronics! Hopefully, the beam will be too weak to affect human tissue as well.

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The full forum post cah be seen below...

http://stormtrack.org/forum/viewtopic.php?...6702&highlight=
 
Actually, this is what I think will happen:

A weather modification system will be developed in the near future. But the main problem will be manning the vast number of mobile units and/or aircraft needed to deploy to risk areas. So, the Government will hire "alert squadrons" of experienced chasers to do the work and pay them very well. (Starting at $190k a year). They will train them to fly either A-10's or super-charged Hummers (complete with red lights and sirens).

You just wait and see. (;

Mike
 
Tinfoil hats...must pass out tinfoil hats...

tinfoil1.gif
 
The best way to stop damage from tornadoes, not to mention hurricanes, baseball and larger hail, etc. is to build structures that will with stand their forces rather than trying to control Mother Nature., which I believe is potentially risky.
We now have the technology to build homes that withstand F-5 tornadoes, and I would like to see these sprout up in any disaster prone area of any type, and especially replacing homes already destroyed by Natural Disaster.
These are the Monolithic Dome homes (www.monolithic.com). They cost about as much to build as a conventional box and roof home of the same size, and could be artistically constructed.
I believe that we need to begin to think in terms of structural stability as well as esthetics when building.
These domes are documented to have gone through hurricanes and tornadoes with no damage!
 
From what I said about before. The equivlant energy from greatly idealized calculations is about an energy output of little more than a whole nuclear reactor and a little less from the hoover dam. That is with an ability of 100% to converter electrical energy to thermal, which is laughable. Now I don't know about you but I don't think we're anywhere close to be able to move power generating plants like that around, and much less be able to get them in position in time where the energy would be effective. Plus a delivery system that would be effective but not huge either, and be able to convert that kind of energy. Then if you aim wrong you might enhance the thunderstorm with more energy!
 
First off........what is up with that "quote" from Craig Maire...about how he's going to be the next Tim Marshall, and everybody will be kissing his behind?? Did it tie in with this subject early on....or was it just a ridiculous statement from a fool?
Secondly....I've had a feeling in my gut for a long long time that in my lifetime I will see some method of either eliminating tornadoes or at the very least, mitigating the strength of tornadoes that a given supercell will produce. When I read Cris Collura's post about him running into some strange "chase" vehicle from Los Alamos, and how it was equipped...as well as the secretive posturing by the men associated with it....I wasn't surprised. I think that a lot of this is going on.
Now, I've never been through the UON school of meteorology or any other universities that have strong wx. programs. If anybody reading this has, please enlighten me. Has the possibility of tornado elimination or mitigation been discussed, and what are the prevailing thoughts on this?
I have often wondered about what is the ULTIMATE reason for all this intense activity directed at learning about supercells and tornadoes. Is the ultimate "goal" simply to provide more warning time? My guess is that this is just a nice bonus that comes along through the pursuit of the ultimate goal. Too many mega dollars...as well as manpower (ROTATE-VORTEX) etc. etc. are being thrown at the tornado questions to simply garner increased warning times (in my humble opinion only). So...if it's not about warning times....then what is it?? Can you imagine how many dollars there would be for the company that develops a safe method of eliminating / mitigating tornadoes? The insurance companies pay out billions of dollars each year as a result of tornado / storm damage. Do you not think that that industry isn't perhaps throwing money at certain researchers to study and research that?? I think it would be naive to assert otherwise.
With so many dollars on the line from so many potential sources....I don't think that increased warning times is what it's all about. Thanks for reading this long post. Joel
 
Even if they could limit tornadoes and hurricanes as they keep proposing none of the people proposing this seem to understand on a macro scale what these things are. In particular hurricanes are the earth's way of redistributing and circulating cool and warm air along with moisture. Similar to if you set a pot of water on the stove to boil and all the bubbles come up to the surface. It is an latent heat exchange process. This is true with thunderstorms as well. Violent thunderstorms along with tornadoes are just a more extreme version of redistribution on a smaller scale.

Before anyone could or should stop / limit these processes they would have to know the overall systemic affect to the atmosphere and to various distributed geographic areas. For instance you limit a hurricane in the gulf and you may have crop failure in Kansas, or extreme drought in Mexico. If you don't allow the ocean to vent and cool then it would just build up more energy and eventually you would get an extreme event that you couldn't control. So, basically you would have to be able to do this in a controlled moderated way that could include and predict the overall result to the entire surface and atmosphere of earth.

All, that said...still assumes they could even do it and of course they can't so far.
 
Increased warning time enough of a benefit

For starters, it takes more than 12 minutes to evacuate the second and third floors of a hospital. And an "average" of 12 minutes allows for numerous instances of 9, 6, 3 and no minutes' warning.
 
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