Canon T2i = HD Video / DSLR for under $1k

[Patrick Martin]

Call me old school, but I just don't get the whole video in an SLR thing. It seems like a gimmick, but then again, I'm into shooting stills and not video. For my money, if canon wants to make a meaningful upgrade for the entry/mid-range photog, dump the video capability, and give me a workhorse of a crop body that is dedicated to being a solid DSLR still camera. I could care less about video capability in an SLR...but that's just me.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Oh right, I forgot about that. But that's always going to be problem unless you are willing to spend thousands of dollars on a camera.

Or a few hundred on the DSLR route obviously. I really wonder about their consumer HD cams now, as in are they expecting to kill their sales with the vid capable DSLRs? I guess it doesn't much matter, a different company will do it and take their sales away anyway, so they all must figure they have to do it. I can't see how this isn't going to hose their consumer vid market...and even their prosumer ones. Probably the latter would even take a bigger hit since serious vid folks want quality and the big sensors offer it. Ease of use the biggest drawback but for most that won't even be a huge problem. Interesting times anyway. Seems this might be the only way I ever can get some high quality vid, as I've never spent enough to get to the nice 3 chippers.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Call me old school, but I just don't get the whole video in an SLR thing. It seems like a gimmick, but then again, I'm into shooting stills and not video. For my money, if canon wants to make a meaningful upgrade for the entry/mid-range photog, dump the video capability, and give me a workhorse of a crop body that is dedicated to being a solid DSLR still camera. I could care less about video capability in an SLR...but that's just me.

But the vid part doesn't seem to be taking away from the still cams, does it? Still going to be just as good of a still cam, vid stuck on there or not. I mean I don't think the vid aspect is doing any quality killing.

Just my brief touring around with this and a 17mm lens on it(about 10mm crop equiv) and thinking about storms, it's blowing me away a bit. Just trying to picture a low light supercell sitting there. Short of a very expensive HD cam that takes different lenses, I don't think anything else for video will compare. But yeah, some serious real world experience with it is lacking for me yet. But again, very low light wondering around indoors really blowing my mind. Once they get the firmware out to add the manual controls for video and more frame rates.....!!! Chasers that can't afford high dollar vid cams should be excited. I guess the only thing that might stop this is I don't yet have a clue how editing them will go and what the files can take and whatnot.

And I don't think the crop sensor versions of video DSLRs are going to be much less on quality video. Still big sensors in comparison to vid cams. Res sure doesn't matter given they all have to cut back to 1920x1080 anyway.

Anyway, before I had live view I thought it was a pointless gimmick and did not care about it. Then I had it and found out just how much I liked it being there. I too wasn't very interested in the vid mode at first. That too is ending rapidly now.

 

[scott r currens]

For what it is worth I have tested the T1i vs FX1000 in low light. From everything I had read I was expecting the T1i to be as good or better than the FX1000 in low light. The T1i is very good but the FX1000 is still the clear winner in low light. Is it $2400 better? No.

If one is talking less than FX1000 you'd think these DSLR's with vid modes would completely trash everything else in the consumer HD vid cam market. And sounds like they trash it too. The noise levels have to be a lot better than the HD vid cams I have. Not sure about the others, but the 5D II has an input for an external mic if that is a concern. With storms focus won't be an issue either, slap it on manual infinity and leave it. But maybe there are other concerns like record format and editing. Just tooling around the low light rooms here with this cam, I gather the low light abilities are down right crazy. Sure it is a full fame, but even the crop sensors have larger sensors than most HD cams are going to have. I was thinking if I upgraded my vid cam(HV20 or HC1...both equally suck big time) that I'd for sure consider a T1i or T2i just for a video purpose(cheaper than the vid cams that give less quality in low light). Though I don't know a thing about their recording modes yet or any mic options. Video wise though I don't see them being a waste for chasing. Then you add in lens abilities...like ultrawide. Probably a great topic for a separate thread I guess.

Sensor size in inches.
DSLR
5D full frame 1.4 x .95
Rebel 1.6x crop sensor .85 x .6

Vid
Sony HC9 .3 x .3
Sony FX1000 .3 x .3 also but there are 3 of them in that case.

Shutter speed I'm sure matters and so far not seeing the manual mode on the 5D II even. Damn firmware supposed upgrade. I wonder what it is ISO'ing up to when the shutter speed gets "too low"/below 1/30th.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Does it have manual control enabled? More frame rates than 30p? I need to look into that thing for a vid cam.

 

[Stephen Locke]

Well I'm really looking forward to this. Wide apertures and extreme wide angle lenses for video. I've been postponing my vid equipment upgrades waiting for this moment. I will bite on the 5D MK II. (after I liquidate some gear). Damn sure would like to have a pair of 'em. Which battery pack did you go with Mike? Seems like you'd need lots of battery for a camera like this.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Well I'm really looking forward to this. Wide apertures and extreme wide angle lenses for video. I've been postponing my vid equipment upgrades waiting for this moment. I will bite on the 5D MK II. (after I liquidate some gear). Damn sure would like to have a pair of 'em. Which battery pack did you go with Mike? Seems like you'd need lots of battery for a camera like this.

I just got another of the one that came with it. Sounds like it goes forever and it seems rather big.

FWIW the stills during video thing it shows the still very short duration on the video. I had heard it was a 1 second image of it when you do take a still during video, but seems more like 1/4 second. It's pretty fast and just about doesn't mess up video. But yeah, put in a few of those and they'll be vid killers.

 

[Andrew Ryan]

Or a few hundred on the DSLR route obviously. I really wonder about their consumer HD cams now, as in are they expecting to kill their sales with the vid capable DSLRs? I guess it doesn't much matter, a different company will do it and take their sales away anyway, so they all must figure they have to do it. I can't see how this isn't going to hose their consumer vid market...and even their prosumer ones. Probably the latter would even take a bigger hit since serious vid folks want quality and the big sensors offer it. Ease of use the biggest drawback but for most that won't even be a huge problem. Interesting times anyway. Seems this might be the only way I ever can get some high quality vid, as I've never spent enough to get to the nice 3 chippers.

I don't think they are in the same market. If a consumer wants an all-in-one package, they've already been out for awhile (p+s with the ability to record video). If someone wants to shoot video, they want a simple solution, just buy a camcorder.

I completely agree with Patrick. The DSLR with video is just a gimmick. They produce beautiful video when there isn't much action in the frame. But any fast motion will suffer from the "jello effect." Which is a huge problem with these cameras. Another huge drawback is the limited recording time due to the sensor overheating.

Now, if this works for people, awesome. But have my video/stills in one package, I could never see that working for me.

 

[Derek Weston]

I don't think they are in the same market. If a consumer wants an all-in-one package, they've already been out for awhile (p+s with the ability to record video). If someone wants to shoot video, they want a simple solution, just buy a camcorder.

I completely agree with Patrick. The DSLR with video is just a gimmick. They produce beautiful video when there isn't much action in the frame. But any fast motion will suffer from the "jello effect." Which is a huge problem with these cameras. Another huge drawback is the limited recording time due to the sensor overheating.

Now, if this works for people, awesome. But have my video/stills in one package, I could never see that working for me.

Depends what you want it for. For out in the field on tornadoes... a dedicated video camera seems best.

For low budget indie film-makers, though, they can be quite the tool. Better censor, incredible ability with array of lenses... depth of field possibilities....(huge in getting a move quality look) usually don't need really long takes there either.

And there are ways around jello lens, and the lack of great audio. (cheap dedicated audio devices that you can mount with the camera, and sync up in editing)

I've seen some pretty neat stuff with the 7D already. That said, we're only scratching the surface.... but if I ever got into independent film making, I'd sure be looking that way.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Yeah having them in one package is problematic, but nicely solved with two packages. It's really not about the combo deal at all.

If it is a gimmick, I think it is a great one as far as chasers are concerned. At least for structure lovers. I'm sure the rest is great too on models with higher selectable frame rates and manual modes.

Is the jello thing more of a stuck at 30p thing? Seems something with more manual controls, like they are dishing out, would correct that with higher frame rates when possible. Sounds like the D90 is stuck at 24p. But maybe other 24p's don't "jiggle" with motion.

I hadn't heard of the sensor overheating thing. Seems like if that was the case they'd at least leave this out of their more expensive full frame cams.

For those that wonder, the canon's are recording 12 minutes for 4 gigs. I don't think the stop length is that long before you can fire another stretch. I rarely record straight for 12 min anyway. So yeah, might have to buy a couple big cards. Good thing is they only need to be 8mb/s rated which is slow. 2 16 gig cards would do for most chases. 3 I guess on the good days lol. Of course you can hook up to a laptop too, but can only dump to it after 12 minutes(or before if one wants) and not record right to laptop.

 

[Billy Griffin]

The video I've shot on my 5D MkII blows the XHA1 and the XLH1 away, without question! The frustrating part, though, is in post.... having to convert 30p to 29.97 NTSC AVI for proper workflow in Sony Vegas.

The H.264 codec is really clean, and with the vast choice of lenses, one can really get creative with video using these cameras.

I just thought that for a camera less than a grand, it might interest some chasers who don't have the budget for both a video and quality still camera, whereas this model combines both in a rather pro-sumer level package.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

The video I've shot on my 5D MkII blows the XHA1 and the XLH1 away, without question! The frustrating part, though, is in post.... having to convert 30p to 29.97 NTSC AVI for proper workflow in Sony Vegas.

And from what I read today their date on the firmware update is "first half of 2010". I hope it beats the chase season and doesn't come out June 30th.

Them moving that exposure offset button away from the eyepiece is going to drive me nuts(or probably just the way it is on full frame I guess). I see it is the iso button, I push that and spin the quick select wheel and it moves the offset, but second I push the shutter down it goes right back to where it was. I see if I go in menu I can change it in there and it sticks. Hmmm, something screwy here. How to use the iso/its button and make it stay. Pushing set doesn't do it.

 

[Andrew Ryan]

Depends what you want it for. For out in the field on tornadoes... a dedicated video camera seems best.

For low budget indie film-makers, though, they can be quite the tool. Better censor, incredible ability with array of lenses... depth of field possibilities....(huge in getting a move quality look) usually don't need really long takes there either.

And there are ways around jello lens, and the lack of great audio. (cheap dedicated audio devices that you can mount with the camera, and sync up in editing)

I've seen some pretty neat stuff with the 7D already. That said, we're only scratching the surface.... but if I ever got into independent film making, I'd sure be looking that way.

That was a practical example I was thinking of. But it just doesn't seem right to me. lol

If you're an indie filmmaker, why not save your pennies and buy something that is made for filming? Your not going to use the DSLR for stills.

Yeah having them in one package is problematic, but nicely solved with two packages. It's really not about the combo deal at all.

If it is a gimmick, I think it is a great one as far as chasers are concerned. At least for structure lovers. I'm sure the rest is great too on models with higher selectable frame rates and manual modes.

Is the jello thing more of a stuck at 30p thing? Seems something with more manual controls, like they are dishing out, would correct that with higher frame rates when possible. Sounds like the D90 is stuck at 24p. But maybe other 24p's don't "jiggle" with motion.

I hadn't heard of the sensor overheating thing. Seems like if that was the case they'd at least leave this out of their more expensive full frame cams.

For those that wonder, the canon's are recording 12 minutes for 4 gigs. I don't think the stop length is that long before you can fire another stretch. I rarely record straight for 12 min anyway. So yeah, might have to buy a couple big cards. Good thing is they only need to be 8mb/s rated which is slow. 2 16 gig cards would do for most chases. 3 I guess on the good days lol. Of course you can hook up to a laptop too, but can only dump to it after 12 minutes(or before if one wants) and not record right to laptop.

That is true but I feel that the ergonomics of a DSLR for filming are weird. The proper way to hold a still camera and a video camera are completely different. That's why I'm so against it.

About the jello effect...I'm almost positive it has to do with the sensor and not the frame rate. I want to say it's because it's a CMOS sensor, but that makes no sense since most consumer cameras use a CMOS sensor.

About the overheating sensor...I read this about D90 when it first came out. The camera would only record video for a certain amount of time. This was a safety mechanism to prevent damage to the sensor. But clearly this a lesser problem for chasers since we tend to record video for short amounts of time.

 

[Laura Duchesne]

Quite surprised to see a new upgraded model so soon! I like the T1i, and for my use, I think the video is just fine. It doesn't take away from the camera - it's a nice camera and it's not very bulky either. Mind you, I just bought it back in the summer and only took video on nice summer-fun days, plus I use a Tamron lens. When I watch them on my computer, I am pretty pleased with it - I mean for what I would do with it, why not? I plan to try it in low light situations when I get a chance. Low light was something my Panasonic cam never dealt with very well. Now, I have no idea how it will handle lightning... I can't wait to try it out on that either!

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Also there is bit rate for the footage. Sounds like these DSLR do around 45-50 mbits/s. HDV and most consumer HD vid cams are what, 25 mbits/s or less?