Camcorder Upgrade

[Jason Moreland]

Hi All,

I finally have 1-2k I can invest in a new camcorder. Does anyone have suggestions? I'm not a camera guru, but I'd preferably want one that can film in 1080p.

I've also thought about choosing one that saves everything to memory cards rather than old mini dvs. I like to upload video asap after a chase, and mini dvs are too slow for my liking. On the flip side, I'm aware that memory card files can become corrupted. My question is how often does this really happen? It also sounds like purchasing multiple memory cards may be necessary since HD videos are so huge. Anything that can shoot in low light is also an obvious plus.

 

[Marcus Diaz]

I have a Canon Vixia HF21, and its just plain awesome. 64 GB of internal memory, 2 more slots for extra space, and a 10 MP still camera built in (I think). Its pretty simple to use, nothing too complicated. Anyways, I can't find my exact camera, but here's something pretty much just like it. I guess its the newer model to replace mine.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/718162-REG/Canon_4743B001_VIXIA_HF_M32_Dual.html

While I don't have a "short" clip preview, here's some tornado footage I got with this camera. This was processed and compressed with DivX codec, so the raw stuff is a bit better. Click "Watch on YouTube" to switch to 1080p.

Watch video >

 

[Skip Talbot]

I'm not up to date on the current models. I got my Sony XR500 back in '09. It does a nice job with some quirks. The biggest quirk being that loud noises can trip the hard drive's shock sensor, which causes the camera to shutdown to protect the drive from being corrupted. Mounted in a dome with 80+ mph of wind is enough to trip it so its an issue on the interstate or in a hell of a wind gust. I believe you can disable this, but then you run the risk of corrupting the drive. This might be a non issue in today's models though.

Here's a few things I'd look for when shopping:
Infinity focus lock. I think most of us have been burned by getting crappy tornado footage by leaving the camcorder in autofocus mode. Can you lock the focus setting at infinity? How easy is it to set? Does it stay locked? Some cameras drop the setting fairly easily, so you'll think you set it and then your camera is hunting for focus during your Campo shot, making it extremely distracting for your viewers. Some cameras will hold the setting even if you turn the camera off. Some have a nice manual focus knob or ring on the lens that you can just crank to set it. You'll almost always want to have infinity locked when shooting storms, or you're too close to your subject. If you have to fumble through menus constantly to set it, its going to be a real pain after awhile.

Framerate. Yeah, get a 1080p camera, but get one that can do 1080-24p. There are fancy cameras that can do 1080-60p. That's almost overkill at this point as a lot of systems can't even do 60p (including all Blu-rays). So you'd be watching the footage on the TV played through the camcorder (if the set does 60p) or on a computer. You'll get better low light performance at 24p though as the shutter can stay open longer. Film is shot at this frame rate so you can still get nice smooth video at this speed. You can burn to Blu-ray at 1080-24p too. My Sony does 1080-60i. The interlaced video should be as good as 30p, but its really not. You lose quality converting to progressive scans, and the interlacing is awkward when editing on and rendering for computers or taking screen shots.

Bit rate. Beyond the resolution (1080) and frame rate (24p,60i,60p), your video quality is going to be determined by the bitrate of the highest quality recording mode. I believe my Sony does 15 or 16 Mbps. Many camcorders today are shooting 20, 25 or higher I believe. You can compare the models against each other using this.

Rolling shutter. I believe all camcorders that record to hard drives or flash memory have a CMOS sensor with a rolling shutter. This causes tearing in your video if the scene changes between frames. This isn't an issue if you're shooting clouds, but you'll definitely see it when shooting lightning. Chasers used to go for camcorders with CCD sensors to avoid this issue. Since this is no longer an option (on a tapeless consumer grade camcorder), you'll just have to compare the models to see which handles the tearing the best. That might be difficult to do without being able to take it for a test drive out of the store so online reviews are probably your best bet there.

Image stabilization. Some camcorders have nasty stabilization that causes the video to degrade into wavy distortions, like your screen has ripples in it. This was an issue with some camcorders when I was in the market a couple years ago, maybe its a non issue today? Anyway, keep an eye out for it. Affected camcorders will shoot great video when they're in your hand in the store. The second you put it on the dash in the car, however, is when you'll notice the motion and bumps in the road distort the video to oblivion.

 

[Andy Jackson]

I've used a couple of different handhelds and a lower end pro-cam. The issue I've come across is the HD format using Mac OS, is you need to convert MTS/M2TS file extensions to an MP4 format and that's before you get to the editor. So, in actuality you are spending more time with digital files than a tape capture, since the editor handles the capture.

For camera, I would recommend a Canon pro-sumer class camera. Yes, the new ones are expensive but you can probably find one used through Amazon or Ebay for a decent price. Just check them out on Canon's website and look at reviews.

 

[Ben Holcomb]

I'll throw my advice in here for the Panasonic TM-HS900 or the HDC-HS900 (Difference being a hard drive/SD card only). The 3 CMOS Rolling shutter is pretty good and provides a very good and crisp picture along with decent low light performance. There's quite a few other chasers with the same cameras (All of my 2010 and 2011 videos were shot with a HDC-HS300) and they have been relatively well received I think. The only complaint would be that it makes the same sound starting and stopping recording, which can get you into trouble with not recording.

There are some more expensive Panasonics as well, but these are right around the 1k range.

 

[Jason Moreland]

Thanks for all the interesting feedback guys. After this I'll probably have to figure out how to stream without a firewire port OR just have 2 separate cams. I've read archived posts about Dazzle and such but the success rate doesn't sound all that good.

 

[Jim Parsons]

Here is a great "Black Friday" deal from Newegg... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...EMC-112511-Index-_-Camcorders-_-30180415-L02A

 

[Jeff Snyder]

Here is a great "Black Friday" deal from Newegg... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...EMC-112511-Index-_-Camcorders-_-30180415-L02A

Amazon is running a "Lightning Deal" on the Panasonic TM900K right now -- $599 with free shipping -> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004I43MJU?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER . This is probably only going to be around for the next hour, so jump on it if you've been holding off. There have been some very good deals on consumer camcorders in the past week. I was happy to pick up the Canon HF M41 for $449 since it had been at $549-$599 just a couple months ago. It did sting to see it down to $399 at Amazon for a short time last week, though. If I recall correctly, the TM900 was close to $800 just a couple months ago when I was doing my research for a new camcorder.

 

[Paul Townsend]

Lightning Deal on the Panasonic TM900K going on right now....$599. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004I43MJU?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

[Chris Gullikson]

Anybody have any feedback on the Canon HF M41 series (M400, M40, M41)? Looks like a great prosumer camera for the money with great low light performance - basically same imager as the HF G10. Amazon has the M41 on sale for $400

 

[Ron Riemersma]

Chris-- the reviews on this seemed real positive... I am sure you saw that as well. I do note that the M41 is now priced at $699, so that was quite the deal you saw back in Dec.

 

[Damien49]

Hello,

Rather than opening a new topic I post here.

I can't find a camcorder that match my criteria.

In fact, I currently looking for a successor to the "Sony VX2100", with its sensitivity to 1 lux and its tri-cdd. But this camera, which is ideal for tracking storms, begins to age. I want to move to HD.

The problem is that most cameras are CMOS rolling shutter. I can't find now a tri-cdd hd camera with good sensitivity.

There are many good camera from 2000 to 4000 $, but not to shoot lightning at night I think (but I don't know). And I have great difficulty finding information on the cameras suitable for our passion on French forums. So I come to you, which may have much more experience than me in this discipline

Strongly that the global shutter CMOS arrives.

Damien BELLIARD

PS : sorry for my broken English

 

[Bill Hark]

I really wish that my Sony VX2100 was HD. For low light, I don't think that any of the reasonable HD cameras come close to the VX2100 sensitivity. That being said, I really like my Sony Z1 that I purchased used a few years ago. It still has a CCD sensor and fairly decent light sensitivity fro an HDV camcorder. The camera is heavy and still uses tapes (which I prefer). You might find a good deal on that model since it has been discontinued several years ago.

Bill Hark

 

[Dan Robinson]

The Panasonic AG-HVX200A is the cheapest CCD HD camera available now, at least the last time I did camera shopping. It runs $3k at B&H. It's not going to be like the VX2100 in low light, however.

I used to own a VX2100, and I have a Sony FX1 which has an identical chipset/lens/tape transport to the Z1 that Bill mentioned. It was not as good as the VX in low light sensitivity, but better than most HD prosumer cameras even today. My FX1 is beginning to wear out and needs maintenance/repairs (it is 7 years old), so I needed to buy a new camera in December. If the video market still supported buying more expensive equipment to ensure better quality for TV/productions, I would likely have bought the HVX200A. I was only able to afford a consumer grade camera this time. As much as I hated it, I had no choice but to accept the rolling shutter, as there was no decent camera in my price range that was CCD. It was that or buy a used Z1/FX1, but used ones in my price range were usually well-worn. Repairing all of the issues with my FX1 would probably approach $2k, so that was out! If you have $2k to spend, you might be able to find a Z1/FX1 in good condition. If it was me though and I had that kind of money, I would go for the HVX200A.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the Panasonic AG-HVX200A does not come with P2 cards that you need to shoot in HD. Those run $300-$400 each!

 

[Damien49]

thank you very much for your answers. I was looking for this kind of information for at least two months on the French forums, without success.

Otherwise, maybe I'll have to wait one year, I know that "patents" were filed in late 2011 for global shutter CMOS sensors from Sony, Panasonic, Samsung and Fuji. Equipment using this technology are so imminent.

PS : I'm not sure of the word "patent". Sorry English is not my native language