Another Reported / Streamed Tornado - Not Warned

[Bill Tabor]

I couldn't find the previous thread of the event in OK a month or so ago that was streamed but not warned so I created a new thread here. (No Search function!)

Apparently this has happened again - this time - to me. I am referring to April 22nd Goodnight Tornado in Armstrong county. I noticed that they hadn't put this tornado in the SPC Storm Reports log - even though it was a blatantly obvious tornado given the number of videos / photos. Based on a wx-chase thread I wasn't sure if they had even warned it though I had called it in so I decided to look it up:

http://mesonet.agron.iastate.edu/cow/?syear=2010&smonth=4&sday=22&shour=12&eyear=2010&emonth=4&eday=23&ehour=12&wfo=AMA&wtype[]=TO&hail=0.75&lsrbuffer=15&ltype[]=TO

They did NOT issue a warning even though I called in directly beginning at 5:22pm (22:22z) (per cell phone log) - position of tornado was about 5 to 8 miles south of Goodnight. I called it in as the funnel was coming down stating it was imminent. And then I let them know when it was planted. Streaming video the entire time of descending funnel and very clear contrasted tornado on www.severestudios.com/livechase.

I will admit I was a bit hurried and anxious on the call. I was directly in front of the tornado (granted it was still a ways off), but wind, hail, rain was increasing and I was trying to figure what to do position wise as I made the call - all the while making sure I was streaming and trying to snap off photos. In the rush as I was driving, I was probably a bit unclear about the tornado location...I suppose, but did give my lat / long per StreetAtlas and tornado position in relation to Clarendon. (I wasn't even aware of Goodnight at the time as it was such a small town on the map). In the rush I even forgot to mention I was on Spotternetwork and that they could see my position there. I do recall mentioning that I was streaming and where I was streaming to help verify.

Bill

 

[James Hilger]

Im pretty sure Bart Comstock called it in also. I know it was mentioned to someone with a group beside us before we took off towards it. I beleive you can hear it in Bart's video on youtube where he is on the phone with them but it could have been someone else. Maybe he will chime in.

 

[Jay McCoy]

If you read AMA's Damage survey I think you will find it. I believe you are refering to tornado #3. Not sure why SPC doesnt have it in their system. maybe because Amarillo didnt post the tornados in their LSR on that day. they waited until the followind day after confirming the tornados.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/news/display_cmsstory.php?wfo=ama&storyid=51285&source=0

Maybe Chris Nuttal can shed more light but thats what I got from him about why they waited.

 

[rdale]

I noticed that they hadn't put this tornado in the SPC Storm Reports log

SPC cuts off their online updates after a certain amount of time, but if it's LSR'd then it will get picked up on the official list.

so I decided to look it up:

Look at the bottom (tornadoes that occurred outside of warnings.) Isn't the second one yours?

Streaming video the entire time of descending funnel and very clear contrasted tornado on www.severestudios.com/livechase.

Just curious if you SN'ed it too - that would pop up right on the GR display. Did you drop the office an email asking why they didn't warn?

 

[Bill Tabor]

I believe tornado #3 is it, but there appears to be no associated warning with it. Also it says it started 3 south of Goodnight, but my estimate was more like 5 to 8 miles south of Goodnight.

I didn't SN it. I just didn't have time. I called it in as I could do that while driving. Later I didn't post it on SN because I figured it was too late to be relevant. No email's to their office. I only just a few hours ago determined it had not been warned.

To be clear, I am not making a big deal of this. I know it was a tornado as do others and I have lots of nice video too. However it does add to the previous thread's topic. I called it in directly to their number reporting first it was coming down, and later it was solidly planted. I told them who I was and that I was trained etc. I told them I had streaming video of it and the location. I was speaking fast and it may have sounded a bit confusing to them. I provide this info more for feedback and improvement of the warning system for the NWS. The folks at Goodnight apparently did not get a warning even though it was phoned in at least 10 minutes before the tornado arrived at their area. I do not know the reason why they did not warn. I know I called the same guy back at least one more time to mention something additional. It may be the radar representation on the southern end did not look that good at the time. Previously the northern cell was looking better. I was headed west to possibly catch a north road - west of Goodnight when I was surprised to see the development to the south. NWS may rely a lot on radar, but if they have direct reports of a tornado firmly planted with streaming video perhaps the routine should be altered a bit to pick up the additional information quicker.

Anyway, just thought I'd pass on the info in case it is worthwhile to anyone.

 

[rdale]

Sounds like you did just about everything... My suggestion about an email to the NWS was just to ask what their opinion of the situation was. If it had to do with your report or you or the north storm and its tornadoes or whatever, that might be something that can be addresses.

 

[Wesley Luginbyhl]

I would have thought it had a warning on it. My computer decided freak out during that tornado though I was able get 2 SN reports off. The first one I was able to send was at 5:28 and the second was at 5:42 saying it had roped out. I dont remember a warning, but when the tornado is on going I dont look at the radar much. My internet was fighting with me the whole day so I was lucky to get those SN reports out.

From previous experiences I can say the Ama NWS pays close attention to SN reports and streams even on days that are not outbreaks like April 22nd was.

 

[Chris Nuttall]

If you read AMA's Damage survey I think you will find it. I believe you are refering to tornado #3. Not sure why SPC doesnt have it in their system. maybe because Amarillo didnt post the tornados in their LSR on that day. they waited until the followind day after confirming the tornados.

http://www.srh.noaa.gov/news/display_cmsstory.php?wfo=ama&storyid=51285&source=0

Maybe Chris Nuttal can shed more light but thats what I got from him about why they waited.

I was only on-duty for the initial stages of the event. I was let go about an hour and a half (I think) before the tornado event started. Since I wasn't in the office at the time, it would be inappropriate for me to speculate on how reports were taken or the reasoning behind the warning decisions.

From my experience working events, the folks in my office do try to keep tabs on the streams and SN reports. In all the severe events I've worked, we've used those streams pretty extensively. Don't think your reports or streams aren't being used. When I'm on-duty, I'm usually one of the people tasked with keeping up with streams or SN. However, I was not at work this time around, so I don't know how the workload was distributed.

 

[Jay McCoy]

I was only on-duty for the initial stages of the event. I was let go about an hour and a half (I think) before the tornado event started.

And you still missed the tornados...lol.. sorry Chris I couldnt resist. . I am sure I will pay for it at our next video party

Thanks for the reply

 

[Bill Tabor]

An aside here....based on Chris's comment...it seems to me that it might be a nice feature in Spotternetwork / GR3 that when a spotter reports a tornado a user would be able to click on their report to see a hyperlink to a stream if they are currently streaming. This should make it easier for NWS to relate a chaser stream to a report. When I'm not chasing I've found it is a bit involved to try and find the related streams to an area of interest. I spend most of my time in GR3 looking at radar so it is the obvious place to link streams of all three current streaming services to allow them to pop up in an external window.

Another addition might be to color code a report that is being streamed as well.

Note that I didn't log this one on Spotternet. LOL - I was a bit excited! What a tornado!

 

[Chris Nuttall]

And you still missed the tornados...lol.. sorry Chris I couldnt resist. . I am sure I will pay for it at our next video party

Thanks for the reply

Thanks for reminding me. :sigh:

I had all my gear with me. I filled the car up with gas, and sat in the gas station parking lot for probably 15 minutes trying to analyze things on my iPhone. I finally talked myself out of going. I decided I probably wouldn't be able to get to anything in time, and I was just about to fall over I was so tired.

I'm still not sure if I could have made it, but I wish I had given it a try!

 

[Bart_Comstock]

Im pretty sure Bart Comstock called it in also. I know it was mentioned to someone with a group beside us before we took off towards it. I beleive you can hear it in Bart's video on youtube where he is on the phone with them but it could have been someone else. Maybe he will chime in.

Chris Wilburn and I were in a caravan on this day. Chris reported the tornado as soon as it touched down and then I had the NWS call me shortly after the tornado crossed 287. I was on the phone with the NWS for several minutes which you can hear in my video. When the storm first touched down Chris and I were talking over 146.55 (my call is KF5CHQ) and I asked if I should report it and he said he was already working on it so I know the tornado was reported very early in its life cycle. Besides me streaming the tornado Bill Tabor was also streaming the tornado and reported it as his posts indicate. In possible defense of the NWS this was a tiny storm that spawned this tornado. Now I know it doesn't justify the missed warning but considering that it was the middle of an outbreak they could have over looked such a small storm in favor of the numerous other tornado producing supercells. There was also another storm just north of this storm that had a tornado on the ground so maybe the NWS just thought the reports were all for the northern storm.




By coincidence this was the second tornado event of the year for me to stream and both occasions had a fairly impressive tornadoes that were reported yet went unwarned for a fairly long time. The first time was the Hammon, OK tornado on March 8th which I reported several times via phone and Spotter Network. I also reported the funnel and rapid rotation that was evident in the Hammon storm well before the tornado touched down on that event.

The thread concerning that event can be found here and on the this page you can find my full recap of that event.

 

[Matt Gingery]

Bart and I had shot the entire life cycle of this tornado. It was called in shortly after it touched down. We were wondering why no warning was issued until 20 minutes into it being on the ground. Goes back to the Hammond, Ok tornado as well. With all the live streams as well as spotter net GPS location of the chaser streaming, there really is an issue regarding this. I think we had figured that the warning was finally issued shortly after the tornado crossed hwy 287. Fortunately no structures were destroyed and injuries were avoided. The storm in question wasn't even SVR warned as the tornado touched down.

 

[Bill Tabor]

Yep, it's a bit perplexing. Chris since you work there...maybe you can look into it for us. It may be the radar just wasn't showing much on this southern storm and even visually minutes before it didn't look all that great, but the radar should be studied. Does anyone have any archived GR3 screen grabs of reflectivity and SRM / velocity? Perhaps it also had to do with the hand off procedure? Or maybe the primary interest was in the northern cell and while the guy took my report then somehow got distracted by reports on the northern cell that he may have thought were more concerning.

This whole situation is interesting because while these were 2 separate storms initially I believe they were in the process of a merger when the tornado occurred. As I understand it is typically the merged cell that benefits and 'tornadoes' as a result of a merger. However this may be a bit different. I don't believe a full merger had occurred but somehow it kind of seems that the influence of the cell to the north may have intensified the southern cell a bit. Perhaps the gust front of the northern cell produced a boundary interaction which allowed it to tornado? Granted the southern cell had it's own things going for it as well...being south it had a clear shot at any moist inflow winds from the s or se. In some ways this situation reminds me of the Bucklin tornado Gene Moore and I got some years back when we broke off the primary storm to go after the developing flanking storm. Gene mentioned at the time 'AH!! I recognise THIS situation' and then we left and got the tornado. Perhaps I need to ask him further details.
http://www.tornadoxtreme.com/Chases_By_Year/2002_Chases/May_7th/may_7th.html