Another Black Eye For Chasers?

[Joey Ketcham]

Does anyone else besides me think there may be some "turf defending" going on there with that county?

Nice tornado comes through, something some of those spotter probably waited years to see, and all of a sudden everyone and their dog shows up and "ruins" their big chance to use all that training they got on a real tornado.

This would not be the first time I have seen some sort of "turf defense" going on with a spotter group when it came to storm chasers.

I kind of see that, but on the other hand I think that the group of people that seems to have any beef with us more than any other group of people is emergency managers and law enforcement as generally it is them that goes to the newspaper and whines about us.

I'm not sure how it is down in Texas or anywhere else, but personally I get along great with storm spotters in my area and not once heard any complaints from them about storm chasers.

At least here in my neck of the woods I think the people that make up the spotter network generally are just people who are associated with civil defense (police, fire, ems) and don't really have any interest in the science at all, in fact most probably don't care whether they ever see a tornado or not. Most just do it as part of their public service for the community they serve.

As most remember, May 4th 2003 was a huge day for southeast Kansas and I'm sure a lot of you were chasing southeast Kansas that day. The F4 tornado that hit Franklin, KS is within my county and I live just a few miles from there... even the days after that not once did I ever see or hear any complaints about storm chasers, and I know I saw just as many chasers on that day as I have on other big chase days this year. There was no editorials in the paper about how evil storm chasers are, there were no letters to the editor from the Crawford County Sherrif or the Emergency Manager about how storm chasers got in the way... nothing. So I don't know if it's just a central and western Kansas deal for them to whine about us or not, but they seem to whine about storm chasers more than anyone else. Seems like everything there is severe weather you have a sheriff in some county out that way that writes to the paper crying about how horrible we are.

 

[Shane Adams]

This would not be the first time I have seen some sort of "turf defense" going on with a spotter group when it came to storm chasers.

I can see that being the case, but again, that is just ridiculous. Are these guys gangbangers now? Makes me glad I'm more or less incognito with my chase vehicle's appearance. As far as a bunch of us showing up and ruining "their" tornado, now they know how it feels to be scanning for severe weather info and all you get is two guys BSing about meaningless crap.

One thing is obvious though: the problem of chasers having negative run-ins with law enforcement/spotters/ems whatever is largely based on the character of the officer/spotter. Seems many stories/experiences I've read about this year involved situations where the chaser was overly-cordial and the cop or whoever was just hell-bent against chasers from the getgo. It's not that chasers are horrible people, it's that many non-chasing people have it in for us, for whatever reason. The cool thing is, you only have to tolerate it from cops.....spotters you can tell to kiss your a$$.

I remember a time was you had to actually do something wrong to be loathed.

 

[David Drummond]

I can see that being the case, but again, that is just ridiculous. Are these guys gangbangers now?

No not gangbangers Shane. LOL It's something I have seen in the ham radio community numbers of times. It happens sometimes between competing ham clubs in the same area. I know of at least two "anti-chaser" spotter groups I can think of just off the top of my head. They want nothing to do with chasers, chasers are not allowed on their closed SKYWARN net (no one is that isn't part of their group) and they don't want to associate with chasers in any form or fashion.

This is the extreme rather than the norm thankfully. But the "turf defending" I am talking about is more of a thing where I think they might have saw chasers as having "stepped on their toes" when some significant severe weather came through that day.


Also, someone mentioned that often in some areas those very spotters are actually the police, fire, ems people. This is true. Often the extent of their severe weather training is a slide show talk for an hour or two each season and then the few storms that pass by that they get to observe. A little story... I organized a little spotter training for a certain, rather large, volunteer fire department. Got the meeting set up and got the NWS guys out to do the training. Most everyone in the department showed up, and as the guys started their talk, the entire group did nothing more during the whole talk but a lot of cutting up and grab assing, so much so they had a hard time even completing the talk. After the guys left the fire chief gave them all a good ass chewing that was duly deserved.

So what do you think happened the next time severe weather came out? Yep, they were all out spotting with their newly aquired knowledge (from that talk they paid oh so close attention to) and they were the experts and no one was going to tell them any different. I ofter wander how many times that plays out across the plains. Obviously, some training programs are very good and very intensive. Others may barely cover the basics, but either way, in my experience, for many of the fire/leo/ems folks, once they have been to some sort of a training class, they consider themselves an expert in that thing, and no one is going to tell them any different. Just something to think about when you encounter them. Not saying they are bad, or aren't well meaning, just something to keep in the back of your mind.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

I couldn't care less whether or not some spotter dislikes me because I'm a chaser. If there are any spotters that dislike chasers in their area, maybe it is because they are threatened by them. I could see that. They go park at some intersection for nothing time and time again, and then when they finally get some good weather to report on a butt load of chasers show up and steal their thunder by reporting as well. It's like being a volunteer fire fighter in a small town. You wait years for a chance to use your skills, finally somebodys' house catches on fire and while you are in route the a$$hole next door puts it out with a garden hose.

 

[rdale]

It's not like being a volunteer firefighter at all. Volunteer or paid - the objective is to get the fire out, even if it's with the neighbors garden hose. Most spotters are there to protect lives, regardless of who gets "credit" for reporting the event.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

It was an analogy meant to convey the point that just because the idea behind what spotters (and volunteer fire fighters) do is supposed to be public service, there is still going to be a grudge held by some people if somebody else (especially an outsider) comes in and performs the service that you have been working at for years.
Yeah the objective is supposed to be to get the fire out, but that doesn't mean that some people aren't going to have a chip on their shoulder if they feel like somebody else stepped in and did their job. A lot of people are competitive by nature. What about multiple detectives working on a case. Yeah they all want to catch whoever they are pursuing and that is certainly the objective, but if you don't think that some of them would feel a little resentment when another detective that just got on the case caught the guy then you are kidding yourself. There is more to it than just the objective, like how the objective is accomplished. I didn't think what I was trying to say was that hard to understand.
If the objective was simply to report on storms and keep the public safe, then why would some spotter groups not like chasers in their area? If your theory were correct then they should be glad chasers were there because it is going to help them accomplish the "objective". I don't think that all people are that simple and charitable.

 

[rdale]

I agree - but it's a few. Just like a "few" bad chasers does n't mean we should throw them all in the same boat...

 

[SteveCarter]

Maybe some of you should take the SKYWARN training classes. They are very short, and this would allow you more access, and credibilty with law enforcement. I classiify myself as a storm CHASER, but have the SKYWARN decals on my car, carry my certificate, etc. Law enforcement has given me access to areas that others were turned away from, and it's came in handy. I have done radio shows about CHASING, and have given my side of things on air. Public awareness of just how valuable a chaser can be is vital, and it carrys with it, the stigma that people NEED us to be there. We HELP, not hinder....or at least that's what we SHOULD be doing. It seems like these newspaper articles, or whatever...that slam chasers, need to be "retaliated" with newspaper interviews with chasers, etc. IE...ask an editor or news staff person if they would be interested in doing an interview with YOU, and then let THAT go in the paper. I decided to do just that a year ago, and in my area, (I know..it's not a hotbed) storm chasers are embraced as people who REALLY help those in need, and try to warn of approaching dangers. By having the radio spots now, and a couple of newspaper interviews, it's also opened the door for other things. (I've been asked to fly through the eye of a hurricane this year). So, let's fight the media WITH the media.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

Public awareness of just how valuable a chaser can be is vital, and it carrys with it, the stigma that people NEED us to be there.

Unfortunately, those who think we contribute nothing will continue to think that way no matter what. I know of people who feel this way, their thought is that it should be left up to first responders and that between first responders and doppler radar there is no need for storm chasers and that nothing we do contributes.

 

[rdale]

I remember when the new WCM at a brand new NWS office said that spotters weren't needed in her CWA since the 88D algorithms were so well advanced...

 

[Joey Ketcham]

Unfortunately, those who think we contribute nothing will continue to think that way no matter what. I know of people who feel this way, their thought is that it should be left up to first responders and that between first responders and doppler radar there is no need for storm chasers and that nothing we do contributes.

Case in point, I sent a reply back to Jim (the guy that emailed me) and told him, in detail, how chasers contribute.. this was his reply:
JOEY
IF YOU WAN TO STORM CHASE IN EASTERN KS THATS FINE. PLEASE DON'T COME TO NW KS
THANK YOU JIM

 

[Jesse Risley]

There isn't much we can do to change the opinions of some of these folks on a storm chaser forum. However, our actions (as chasers) will speak louder than any words on this forum, or elsewhere for that matter.

Next time you head out, just be congnizant about how you drive (and act in general) as a chaser around the general public, LEOs, EMA, spotters, etc. A few bad apples will spoil things for the whole bushel, so just remember that irresponsible actions on the road could be detrimental to certain aspects of the hobby. I've been more cognizant of my driving habits based on these threads this spring, and I have to admit it has made me a better (and safer) chaser than I was in past years.

 

[Mikey Gribble]

I just read that letter from Jim. Are you fricking kidding me? I can't believe that prick would say something like that. Chasers are the ones making false reports? Give me a break. Why is it that cops get hit by tornadoes all the time and chasers never do? It's definitely not just because cops have bad luck. EMS don't have a clue when it comes to reporting on a storm accurately and they sure as hell don't know how to keep themselves safe around one. All they can do is say I see hail or I see a tornado (and half the time their "tornado" is an RFD dust plume or a gustnado).
The vast majority of the public gets their weather information from TV. Who do these guys think are doing the call ins on TV? It ain't the spotters. I and other CHASERS are the ones getting the storm information on the air for the public. Jim needs to get off his high horse and come back to reality. The guy goes to a NWS spotter training session, sees a slide show of wall clouds, and thinks he is damn expert all of a sudden. The sad thing is that the guy probably really does think he's an expert. They don't have to worry about me calling in when I'm chasing out there.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

How about a chaser party in NW Kansas in '08?

Could be quite a shindig -

 

[Dan Robinson]

I don't have a problem with the guy being upset at the people who are blocking roads and calling 911 when they slide into a ditch. Just don't direct that anger at me and everyone else who are playing by the rules.

The main fallacy that these anti-chaser folks are guilty of is lumping all of us into the same category. The fail to see that their problem is with a small minority. Five people called 911 with cars in ditches? That means there were at least 200 others who didn't. But they get the blame just as quickly as those who did.