John Erwin
EF5
**rescued post**
HAltschule
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 685
Location: Albany, New York
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: It turns out that this hook echo I observed did indeed put down a weak tornado in Massapequa and Amityville, NY (yes of Amityville House of Horror) yesterday morning.
Quote: PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE UPTON NY
833 PM EDT FRI AUG 25 2006
...WEAK TORNADO OVER SOUTH SHORE COMMUNITIES...
NWS INVESTIGATORS DETERMINED THAT AN F0 TORNADO TOUCHED DOWN IN
SEVERAL LOCATIONS OF EXTREME SOUTHEASTERN NASSAU COUNTY IN EAST
MASSAPEQUA AND EXTREME SOUTHWESTERN SUFFOLK COUNTY IN AMITYVILLE
BETWEEN 12 AND 1215 THIS FRIDAY AFTERNOON. WINDS IN A F0 TORNADO
ARE UP TO 72 MPH.
THE TORNADO/S PATH WAS ONLY ABOUT ONE QUARTER OF A MILE LONG AND
AROUND 150 YARDS AT IT WIDEST PART IN MASSAPEQUA. PREDOMINANTLY TREE
DAMAGE COVERED THIS AREA OF THE SOUTH SHORE. ROTATION WAS EVIDENT IN
THE TOPS OF MANY OF THE TREES AND TORNADIC DAMAGE CAME VERY CLOSE TO
THE GROUND IN SEVERAL LOCATIONS. THE MOST DAMAGE OCCURRED FROM
AROUND CLOCKS BOULEVARD THEN MOVED SOUTHEAST ACROSS MELROSE AVENUE
ACROSS COUNTY LINE ROAD INTO AMITYVILLE/S OLD FIELDS AND HOMESTEAD
AVENUES. IT SEEMED TO LIFT BACK INTO THE PARENT THUNDERSTORM CLOUD
BY THE TIME THE STORM MOVED OVER KETCHAM AVENUE.
THE PARENT THUNDERSTORM ITSELF WAS SEVERE AS WELL. WINDS WERE
ESTIMATED AT 60 TO 70 MPH. HAIL THE SIZE OF QUARTERS WAS ALSO
REPORTED WITH THIS STORM. VERY HEAVY RAIN ALSO OCCURRED WITH THIS
STORM CAUSING FLOODING OVER MANY SECTIONS OF NASSAU COUNTY AS WELL
AS SOUTHWESTERN SUFFOLK COUNTY.
A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING WAS IN EFFECT WHEN THIS STORM HIT THE
AFFECTED AREA.
$$
WYLLIE
_________________
All the best,
Howie Altschule
Forensic Meteorologist
Www.WeatherConsultants.Com
David Kaplow
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 12
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:34 am Post subject:
Interesting wording on that:
Quote: TORNADIC DAMAGE CAME VERY CLOSE TO
THE GROUND IN SEVERAL LOCATIONS.
If the only evidence for the tornado is the damage, and the damage can't be confirmed all the way to the ground, was this really a tornado? Or does tree damage automatically mean that the tornado is considered to have technically been "on the ground"? Personally I would say if it reaches the trees, it's a tornado, but this just got me wondering exactly what kind of damage you would need to prove that a vortex has actually reached "all the way to the ground". What exactly constitutes the ground, in these kinds of situations? If the only damage from an event is, say, a tall building that was unroofed, is that alone enough to get the event classified as a tornado? Just curious.
Jason Hetzel
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
Location: MIPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:44 am
Post subject:
Remember the definition for a true tornado. If there is a debris cloud of some sort and damage indicated especially with trees in a spiral like fashion then it was a tornado. In this case it sounds like it was a touch down as for trees were damaged. However there is no evidence of a spiral pattern in any way so indeed it is hard to tell for sure..
Pat Lawrence
Guest
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:11 pm
Post subject:
Remarks related to the above:
"When the visible funnel does not reach the surface, silly reports of a "funnel cloud accompanied by wind damage" can occur, or such absurdities are reported as "The funnel only reached treetop level" or whatever. We probably will find it difficult ever to convince the public as a whole that a tornado is wind and not the funnel cloud. Hopefully, no self-respecting meteorologist would do anything to perpetuate such misconceptions......."
http://www.cimms.ou.edu/~doswell/a_tornado/atornado.html
Jeff Snyder
Moderator
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 3858
Location: Norman, OKPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject:
Mod note: I split off the posts above from the 8/25/2006 NOW: NY thread since they did not pertain to on-going weather.
_________________
Jeff Snyder
KC0HJX
University of Oklahoma Graduate Student
http://www.tornadocentral.com
Pat Lawrence
Guest
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:16 pm
Post subject:
Jeff Snyder wrote: Mod note: I split off the posts above from the 8/25/2006 NOW: NY thread since they did not pertain to on-going weather.
Thanks, Jeff!
Pat
HAltschule
Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 685
Location: Albany, New York
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: It turns out that this hook echo I observed did indeed put down a weak tornado in Massapequa and Amityville, NY (yes of Amityville House of Horror) yesterday morning.
Quote: PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE UPTON NY
833 PM EDT FRI AUG 25 2006
...WEAK TORNADO OVER SOUTH SHORE COMMUNITIES...
NWS INVESTIGATORS DETERMINED THAT AN F0 TORNADO TOUCHED DOWN IN
SEVERAL LOCATIONS OF EXTREME SOUTHEASTERN NASSAU COUNTY IN EAST
MASSAPEQUA AND EXTREME SOUTHWESTERN SUFFOLK COUNTY IN AMITYVILLE
BETWEEN 12 AND 1215 THIS FRIDAY AFTERNOON. WINDS IN A F0 TORNADO
ARE UP TO 72 MPH.
THE TORNADO/S PATH WAS ONLY ABOUT ONE QUARTER OF A MILE LONG AND
AROUND 150 YARDS AT IT WIDEST PART IN MASSAPEQUA. PREDOMINANTLY TREE
DAMAGE COVERED THIS AREA OF THE SOUTH SHORE. ROTATION WAS EVIDENT IN
THE TOPS OF MANY OF THE TREES AND TORNADIC DAMAGE CAME VERY CLOSE TO
THE GROUND IN SEVERAL LOCATIONS. THE MOST DAMAGE OCCURRED FROM
AROUND CLOCKS BOULEVARD THEN MOVED SOUTHEAST ACROSS MELROSE AVENUE
ACROSS COUNTY LINE ROAD INTO AMITYVILLE/S OLD FIELDS AND HOMESTEAD
AVENUES. IT SEEMED TO LIFT BACK INTO THE PARENT THUNDERSTORM CLOUD
BY THE TIME THE STORM MOVED OVER KETCHAM AVENUE.
THE PARENT THUNDERSTORM ITSELF WAS SEVERE AS WELL. WINDS WERE
ESTIMATED AT 60 TO 70 MPH. HAIL THE SIZE OF QUARTERS WAS ALSO
REPORTED WITH THIS STORM. VERY HEAVY RAIN ALSO OCCURRED WITH THIS
STORM CAUSING FLOODING OVER MANY SECTIONS OF NASSAU COUNTY AS WELL
AS SOUTHWESTERN SUFFOLK COUNTY.
A SEVERE THUNDERSTORM WARNING WAS IN EFFECT WHEN THIS STORM HIT THE
AFFECTED AREA.
$$
WYLLIE
_________________
All the best,
Howie Altschule
Forensic Meteorologist
Www.WeatherConsultants.Com
David Kaplow
Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 12
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:34 am Post subject:
Interesting wording on that:
Quote: TORNADIC DAMAGE CAME VERY CLOSE TO
THE GROUND IN SEVERAL LOCATIONS.
If the only evidence for the tornado is the damage, and the damage can't be confirmed all the way to the ground, was this really a tornado? Or does tree damage automatically mean that the tornado is considered to have technically been "on the ground"? Personally I would say if it reaches the trees, it's a tornado, but this just got me wondering exactly what kind of damage you would need to prove that a vortex has actually reached "all the way to the ground". What exactly constitutes the ground, in these kinds of situations? If the only damage from an event is, say, a tall building that was unroofed, is that alone enough to get the event classified as a tornado? Just curious.
Jason Hetzel
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
Posts: 32
Location: MIPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:44 am
Post subject:
Remember the definition for a true tornado. If there is a debris cloud of some sort and damage indicated especially with trees in a spiral like fashion then it was a tornado. In this case it sounds like it was a touch down as for trees were damaged. However there is no evidence of a spiral pattern in any way so indeed it is hard to tell for sure..
Pat Lawrence
Guest
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:11 pm
Post subject:
Remarks related to the above:
"When the visible funnel does not reach the surface, silly reports of a "funnel cloud accompanied by wind damage" can occur, or such absurdities are reported as "The funnel only reached treetop level" or whatever. We probably will find it difficult ever to convince the public as a whole that a tornado is wind and not the funnel cloud. Hopefully, no self-respecting meteorologist would do anything to perpetuate such misconceptions......."
http://www.cimms.ou.edu/~doswell/a_tornado/atornado.html
Jeff Snyder
Moderator
Joined: 09 Dec 2003
Posts: 3858
Location: Norman, OKPosted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject:
Mod note: I split off the posts above from the 8/25/2006 NOW: NY thread since they did not pertain to on-going weather.
_________________
Jeff Snyder
KC0HJX
University of Oklahoma Graduate Student
http://www.tornadocentral.com
Pat Lawrence
Guest
Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:16 pm
Post subject:
Jeff Snyder wrote: Mod note: I split off the posts above from the 8/25/2006 NOW: NY thread since they did not pertain to on-going weather.
Thanks, Jeff!
Pat
