5/4/07 DISC: KS

[Mike Peregrine]

Thanks Jeff and Andrew ... yeah, typically I think of anything in the >300 range to be more than enough for large, long-tracked tornadoes. Just wondered about a few of the lowlevel numbers and other parameters near the storm at the time. I'll check out the links - - thanks.

 

[Shane Adams]

Is it possible that some of the images and reports of the tornado "growing to 2 miles in diameter north of Greensburg" are in reality describing the second tornado? Based on SRV and the Dodge City track map, it appears that a third possible wedge tornado developed in the extreme northeastern part of the county while the 2nd massive wedge was still on the ground. If you watch the BR animation, the storm undergoes a transformation/occlusion almost identical to the one that produced the second tornado.

Tornadoes #2 (just east of Greensburg tornado) and #3 were definitely on the ground at the same time. #2 ended at 11:05pm (per DDC) and tornado #3 began at 10:40pm and continued through 11:20pm (I think). Not sure of the ending time on #3 but #2/3 were simultaneous for a good bit. FWIW tornado #3 was also a large wedge, based on our video/estimated distance I'd put it at at least a mile wide. It was larger than the 5-3-99 OKC wedge, at least visually from our vantage point. Mickey Ptak has a capture of it on his website's mainpage: http://www.mesomick.com

 

[Eric Flescher]

info wanted on spc time stamps

Looking at the time stamps for SPC
I would like to know what is the purpose of the time stamps being that way?
For example the Greenburg ones are time stamped
0238 and 0255
that would mean 0000 is around 7pm?

They are not UTC like astronomy
what is purpose in stamping then this way?
any help appreciated
thanks

***

Tornadoes #2 (just east of Greensburg tornado) and #3 were definitely on the ground at the same time. #2 ended at 11:05pm (per DDC) and tornado #3 began at 10:40pm and continued through 11:20pm (I think). Not sure of the ending time on #3 but #2/3 were simultaneous for a good bit. FWIW tornado #3 was also a large wedge, based on our video/estimated distance I'd put it at at least a mile wide. It was larger than the 5-3-99 OKC wedge, at least visually from our vantage point. Mickey Ptak has a capture of it on his website's mainpage: http://www.mesomick.com

 

[Rob Herman]

From SPC site: http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/reports/070504_rpts.html

at the bottom of the reports it mentions: "All Times UTC"

 

[Mike McDonald]

I would like to know what is the purpose of the time stamps being that way? For example the Greenburg ones are time stamped
0238 and 0255 that would mean 0000 is around 7pm?

They are not UTC like astronomy what is purpose in stamping then this way?
any help appreciated thanks

Yes, 0000 UTC is 7pm CDT (CDT=UTC - 5hr). The time stamp on the radar is UTC. I would think that UTC is the same in astronomy, but this is Universal Coordinated Time (UTC comes from the French translation) which is the same as Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) or Zulu (Z) time.
Mike

 

[Eric Flescher]

geez I forgot

Sorry about that . I should have guessed .
To quote the Simpsons "duhhhhh."
UTC of course I forgot advances the time depending upon where you live . So yes as you say Central time is 7pm (+7) from Greenwich.
Thanks very much. I am not sure if I feel more enlightened or just dump at not figuring this out!

***

Yes, 0000 UTC is 7pm CDT (CDT=UTC - 5hr). The time stamp on the radar is UTC. I would think that UTC is the same in astronomy, but this is Universal Coordinated Time (UTC comes from the French translation) which is the same as Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) or Zulu (Z) time.
Mike

 

[Mike McDonald]

^^Well, I felt dumb answering the question. I figured you knew, but were just having one of those moments.

Mike

 

[Doug Lee]

There is one difference between UTC and GMT. UTC is adjusted to the second, and GMT isn't. I know that's kinda picky, but I'm not the one to decide that. I can see sometimes in scientific endeavors, such precision is necessary. It doesn't matter much to chasers and spotters in the field, but somewhere down the line, it might in the analysis.

 

[Eric Flescher]

yeah it was one of those moments

yeah it was one of those moments

Halfheimers or
sometimers



School has been hectic lately. I just did not see the trees before the forest.


***

^^Well, I felt dumb answering the question. I figured you knew, but were just having one of those moments.

Mike

 

[Reed Timmer]

Does anyone know the reason for the continued delay for the May 4, 2007 Ellis Co., OK damage survey?

Also, I haven't been able to find any damage survey info on the Macksville, St. John tornado from May 5, 2007.

I'm thinking the dirt roads should have been passable long ago.

 

[Jason Bolt]

Also, I haven't been able to find any damage survey info on the Macksville, St. John tornado from May 5, 2007.

I'm thinking the dirt roads should have been passable long ago.

Met up with NWS team a few days after so the damage survey has been done. I too am awaiting the final report.

 

[Darin Brunin]

Here are a couple of photos from early in the Greensburg storm's life .......

Some structure a few minutes after the storm went tornado warned.

This is shortly after we pulled off the road after the first tornado touched down that was associated with the old meso to the west. You can also see the birth of the Greensburg meso on the far right side of the image. The old meso still amazes me, because shortly after that a stovepipe tornado formed on it that was on the ground for atleast 10-15 minutes while the meso that produced the Greensburg tornado started to do its thing as well and they both had strong tornadoes associated with them on the ground at the same time. We just happened to be in the middle so we could watch both.

 

[Rodney Price]

Darin,

Thanks for sharing that photo. It definitely clarifies what I was seeing on the radar. I've attached DDC's SRV2 cut from 5/4. In looking at the LSR list and your post, I think this is pretty close to the time you took the picture but please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's still amazing to me how many times the storm cycled that night.

Rodney

 

[Scott Olson]

I've completed an analysis using mesonet data near the Greensburg storm avaliable here.

 

[Dick McGowan]

Darin,

Thanks for sharing that photo. It definitely clarifies what I was seeing on the radar. I've attached DDC's SRV2 cut from 5/4. In looking at the LSR list and your post, I think this is pretty close to the time you took the picture but please correct me if I'm wrong.

It's still amazing to me how many times the storm cycled that night.

Rodney

If you input this URL into GRLevel3's "Placefiles" under GIS..........you can watch spotters/chasers on there:

http://www.spotternetwork.org/grlevelx.txt