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5/4/07 DISC: KS

Bobby Prentice said:
Here's the output from the NSSL Rotation Tracks product, clearly showing the occlusion process around Greensburg, KS.

rot_tracks_greensburg.jpg


Compare this to the official damage map for Kiowa County, KS: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/Image/ddc/GreensburgTornado/Kiowa county.gif

The next tornado northeast of Greensburg was well over a mile wide as well. The rotational tracks signatures suggest this tornado likely would have been rated EF-5 as well if there was any damage indicators (DIs) to prove it. It actually had a stronger rotational signature than the Greensburg tornado.
Click to expand...

Thank you Bobby for posting this :)

I agree with you both on that one, in fact, by looking at this radar grab, that Bobby has posted up, it looks like the second wedge maxed at about 1.25 - 1.5 miles wide, but also it increases in strength and size, quickly and steadily, and so, yt would would've been just golden, if the DOW tem had been able to scan both tornadoes, that would've been sweet beyond belief :)

I think that this shows one of those rare cases of 2 incredibly large and stronge wedges being wedges, maybe not on the ground simultaniously, but not far from it :)

Willie
 
Is it possible that some of the images and reports of the tornado "growing to 2 miles in diameter north of Greensburg" are in reality describing the second tornado? Based on SRV and the Dodge City track map, it appears that a third possible wedge tornado developed in the extreme northeastern part of the county while the 2nd massive wedge was still on the ground. If you watch the BR animation, the storm undergoes a transformation/occlusion almost identical to the one that produced the second tornado.
 
The core of the tornado, went right through the centre of Greensburg, but, it looks like it started to turn left to the NW, as it was going through the northern half of town, and I have a feeling that the tornado weakened, once it got to the lake, because water slows down a tornado's rotaion alot more, than land does.

What do you guys think? :)

Thanks for posting this, I'm going take a look at the other damage path from the new wedge that formed, when the new meso formed :)

Willie
 
Looking forward to seeing the meso-analysis of this event. I am still wondering if there was a strengthening mesolow either west of northwest of the immediate Greensburg area. The quick and powerful cyclic history of the supercell was very interesting. This may have been an even more extreme/dramatic example than the 3/13/90 Hesston-Goessel KS F5 tornado cyclic process. It's hard to wrap my mind around a pair of mile wide plus tornadoes on the ground at the same time. A very rare occurrence. I will have to dig through the violent tornado climatology to see if this has ever happened in the records. I am not knowing of any off the top of my head.
 
thanks for google earth info and Greensbrug survivor comments

Thanks for google earth info .
Also I just found in USAtoday 5/7/2007 on page 5A
"Monster tornado 'flat out leveled the town'
by Emily Bazar
(you might be able to see it on line and the damage pics)

there is a map of the counties which affected NM, OK, KS, NE, SD, CO nad TX Sat and Sunday.

also a life long resident echoes probably what a lot of people think in tornado alley

Wittig said she never expected a tornado to hit her home , even though she lives in a twister hotspot.
"The sirens have gone off before many a time, but the tornado would go over or around the town" she says. " That's why so many people got hurt . That's why so many people stayed home. Nobody thought it was going to hit."

***

Kiel Ortega said:
[FONT=PrimaSans BT,Verdana,sans-serif]Ooops...probably should have posted this in here first. Google comes out with some before and after satellite pictures (need Google Earth and worth getting it for this view)[/FONT]


[FONT=PrimaSans BT,Verdana,sans-serif]http://mw1.google.com/mw-earth-vectordb/or/greensburg_tornado.kml[/FONT]
Click to expand...
 
 
Hey Dan, that is very humbling. I have been at unrest since this occured and your post doesn't help much. Makes me understand more of why we are an importance to the public. We run around on our hamms and all but only a certain few can hear us. That must change soon. I know they had warning in plenty of time but some real time knowledge would save more lives in the future. I guess we just keep pressing on although this is a very disheartening situation.
 
I hear ya on that one Rodney, as I am familiar with the same feeling of unrest to an extent, simply because I have been studying tornado dynamics for a good few years now, but I'm certainly no expert, as I have still many more things to learn, but I still feel a little angry because there's always the feeling of something more can still be done to warn the public, about any impending danger, etc, but what makes it frustrating is the fact, that there is little more that can be done, in the end of the day, as spotters/chasers, as scientiests, as volunteers and as human beings, we can only do the best that we possibly can to help, and sometimes our best isn't enough to prevent some people being killed by such monsterous tornadoes, but we can still help those, who have survived, to stay alive and to become stronger and help them back on their feet :)

Willie
 
Was curious after the insane SRH numbers posted by the Linn County storm on 2/28 if anyone is aware of whether Greensburg came anywhere close to >1000 m2/s2 SRH - - anyone happen to notice helicities posted at the time? Just curious -
 
Mike Peregrine said:
Was curious after the insane SRH numbers posted by the Linn County storm on 2/28 if anyone is aware of whether Greensburg came anywhere close to >1000 m2/s2 SRH - - anyone happen to notice helicities posted at the time? Just curious -
Click to expand...

Though relatively low-resolution (compared to individual sector views), you can look at the archived SPC/RUC Mesonalysis data at http://www.spc.noaa.gov/exper/ma_archive/ ... According to that analysis, 0-1km SRH was closer to 300 m2/s2 I believe. However, SRH is very sensitive to exact storm motion, and there certainly may have been areas of higher SRH near the storm.

For example, the 0-1km SRH analysis valid at 02UTC can be accessed at http://www.spc.noaa.gov/exper/ma_archive/images_s4/20070505/02_srh1.gif
 
Mike Peregrine said:
Was curious after the insane SRH numbers posted by the Linn County storm on 2/28 if anyone is aware of whether Greensburg came anywhere close to >1000 m2/s2 SRH - - anyone happen to notice helicities posted at the time? Just curious -
Click to expand...

SPC calculated 0-1km SRH of over 400 m2/s2 in a Mesoscale Discussion ~11pm that evening (assumedly using local VWPs and/or modified RUC guidance/mesoanalyses)... more than sufficient for long-lived, violent tornadoes. http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/md/md0693.html
 
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