Where are the African / Asian chasers?

[Dennis Gulley]

Was it because we looked different than most people who live in west Kansas? Did they think we were potential terrorists?

I can see where what they may have been thinking. Remember 911.
Anyone who does not look white is a potential extreamist of some sort.
Also you have to consider what state your license plates are from. Here in Nebraska they tend to target out of state plates along I-80 and are always making drug busts, mainly vehicles from California heading to Chicago with false compartments inside of fuel tanks full of crack etc.
So you had 2 things working against you. Being dark skinned and being out of state.

Please dont take this wrong. I am only stating what I think they were thinking, whether it is right or wrong, I do not know.

Dennis

 

[Dick McGowan]

FYI, in western kansas, especially dodge city, garden city , great bend(Biggest cities out there) It's predominantly hispanic. I don't think they were profiling you, although it wouldn't surprise me, since profiling goes on EVERYWHERE, in our great paranoid country.

 

[Jesal Patel]

I did not want to solely attribute getting pulled over to being profiled or even imply that the cops were rascist (they didn't make any racial remarks by any means). Just given the circumstances of the situation, I couldn't help these possibilities from crossing my mind. I'd like to give the officers the benefit of the doubt. It's a risky job and I understand they have to be on gaurd and prepared for the worst. But at the same time, it a real crummy and scary feeling to be treated as a criminal when you are honest and hardworking.

Either way, it's not stopping me from chasing and I certainly hope it won't stop anybody else. That was not my intention. Just wanted to share my experince and feelings for purposes of discussion.

 

[Dave Kaplow]

I don't think there is any one reason why there are so few minority chasers. It's a combination of factors, most of which have already been brought up. I think there probably is something to the argument that minorities aren't very prone to risk taking, although I think it should probably be framed more as a reluctance to stick one's neck out. Given the history of race relations in this country, it's perfectly understandable why minorities might choose to take that attitude. But other factors are surely at work. For instance, whenever a "why do you chase" thread pops up on stormtrack, the replies almost always reference a seminal personal experience with extreme weather as a major contributing factor. A look at the county's demographics shows that the areas of least diversity (i.e. mostly white) do correspond to a great extent with the areas most prone to severe weather - so that's no doubt part of it also. Finally, the economics of chasing are a big barrier to anyone not already living on the Plains, which would again favor caucasians over minorities, although I think economics is probably not as important a factor. Let's face it, anyone who really wants to chase eventually finds a way to do so, regardless of personal wealth.

Regarding Jesal's experience, the question that has to be asked is, "would it have happened to a couple of middle aged white guys?" and I think it's pretty clear the answer to that is no. So it's definitely profiling in my book. Unfortunately, it happens all too often, and just as frequently in coastal urban areas as out in the midwest. Profiling is one of the reasons why most of the drug offenders in jail are black, when the actual rate of drug usage is phenomenally stable across racial lines - but I'm getting way off topic.

The bottom line is that I'd like to see more minority representation in storm chasing, just as I would like to see it in many other areas of American life that are currently predominantly white. But I don't hold out much hope that this will come to pass any time soon. I've tried to get some of my black friends interested in severe weather, but for whatever reason, it just doesn't seem to be something that urban minorities are all that interested in.

A final observation: judging from my personal experience explaining what I do to my friends, it appears that white people are much more likely to see storm chasing as a "cool" thing to do, whereas blacks tend to view it as just a bit too geeky.

 

[joel ewing]

Ok, let me jump in again....after reading the line "would this have happened to a couple of middle aged white guys....
The answer is a resounding YES. It happens all the time. I think it was in '02 or '03...my cousin / chase partner Doren Berge and I were heading southbound on some road in the west central part of Texas...working our way to the Midland area. It might have been on hwy. 20. Anyhow, Doren...who is from the Boston area...which means that he doesn't do a whole lot of driving everyday like I do in the southwest....got pulled over by a state trooper. I was on the cellphone with the airlines trying to fix a snafu...and there were two troopers talking to Doren. Doren had gotten out of the vehicle, and was getting grilled by those guys. Now mind you, Doren is about early 40ish at that time.....and although he is one of the premiere guitar players in the northeast... (oh yeah....for real) the last thing he looks like is some rock God. I could tell by listening with one ear that the troopers were leaning on him pretty firmly. I ended my call, and got outside with the three of them. We had rented a Hertz Pontiac Aztec that season, and it really was a weird looking thing...albeit a damn good chase vehicle. Anyhow, one cop even blurted out....man....why would you rent this....you guys picked out a really UGLY truck. He didn't say it in jest, either. I thought...man, the audacity! Well, besides being a rock guitarist....Doren was at the time in command of LYCO'S world-wide advertising / web designing team........approx. 150 employees under him from different parts of the globe. A heavy, heavy, position and responsibility. Fortunately, he speaks beautifully as a result of being in that arena...and it showed to the cops. They eventually cooled out, and we even laughed...all of us...about the "ugly truck" comment. The troopers did tell us that in the plains states...which was agriculture / oil dominated for so long....that the jobs for younger guys in those little towns have dried up....and those that are staying there are turning to METH LABS to make ends meet. All cops are very aware of this....and have been busting younger guys (and older..like Doren and me...who's 50) also. They even admitted that they engaged us with some not-so-nice and somewhat heavy handed dialog....because this is how they tell if a driver IS cranked up on meth.....by his reaction.
I would bet my last dollar that this is the reason you got pulled over...not because you have (possibly?) darker skin than the cops. And is it possible....that you WERE weaving a little bit??
Incidently, the troopers gave my Cuz a warning. But....earlier in the week in Kansas......my ol' chasepartner and cousin got a big fat speeding ticket......which he deserved bigtime.
So you see........it isn't just you, bro.

 

[StephenLevine]

I don't have any comments about actual chasers, but I personally know that the FASCINATION of storms extends to other socio economic and cultural groups besides white and relatively well - off.
In 1996, on a chase in Nebraska, with the sky turning green and purplish, we took a turn off the freeway in Omaha and ended up in the "ghetto" section of the city.
Immediately I noticed the decrepid buildings, etc., but I was mostly focused on finding a place to film the swirling colorful sky that had a good view. Not knowing the city at all, I had no clue where else we could go to film, and chose to merely focus on capturing the perfect shot.
I soon found a gas station with a view, set up tripod and began to film. The person with me acted very nervous and uncomfortable, especially as a number of locals approached us; with us being White suburbanites and the other folks Black and inner city. My focus however stayed on the developing storm overhead.
I pointed out to the locals the drama of the sky, what it meant, that we are storm chasers... and immediately felt like a celebrity. The raw fascination and awe expressed by those inner city folk was truly wonderful for me to experience, and the drama of what was going on above us allowed us to bridge very divergent cultures and life experiences, and mix much laughter with question and answer sessions.
Many of the individuals who had come over to us were genuinely interested in what we were doing, were thrilled to look through the video cam, and wanted understand what it was that we were looking for, as well as of course be reassured that there would be no tornado dropping on top of us.
In the end we all shook hands, high fived and went on our merry ways; I believe each of us received a little healing from the experience.

 

[Bill Hark]

I am still enjoying this thread. Interesting. With regards to the earlier post, you probably were being profiled. Also, out of state plates often attract notice by law enforcement. I rent in Oklahoma but usually pick bad chase seasons and find myself all over tornado alley usually away from Oklahoma. I am often followed when I drive through small towns or police will stop and "chat" when I am pulled over checking maps. I don't always have chase decals. When an officer is chatting, they may be bored and want to talk. More likely, they are observing your emotional state, alertness, signs of nervousness while seeing what is visible in the car. I usually have at least one encounter per chase.

Bill Hark

 

[Justin Turcotte]

There are some larger cities in chase territory that have sizable (in a relative sense) minority population... Oaklahoma City, Tulsa, KC, Dallas, etc. Comprising about 30% of the U.S. population, blacks and hispanics would comprise of 3 in 10 chasers with proportionate representation. As already stated, these populations tend to be underrepresented in the sciences for a multitude of reasons.... cost of knowledge, culture, differing interests, etc. I don't see this as a detriment so long as the door is open and I don't see anyone trying to close it. Quite the contrary. There are folks out there who are trying desperately to inject more diversity in the field. I believe they are misguided. We need to inject talent into the field regardless of skin color or if you have an x or y chromosome. There has been a lot of media hype about women in chasing, much of it inspired by the Twister Sisters Peg and Mel. I have mixed emotions on this. With their recent parade, the media has shown than chasing indeed has multiple personalities potentially inspiring the non white male crowd. Unfortunately the media focused almost exclusively on the pair of x chromosomes and not the science and thrill of the chase, things that ultimately get new blood in the field. It almost seems derogatory to women in this country to advertise that they have broken some barrier that doesn't exist, that maybe they wern't previously up to the challenge, or lacked the knowledge to participate. (whoa, I'm sounding like a feminist) Pure hogwash. Every year during my university experience I saw more and more females in meteorology classes. Science has no boundaries or limits. With time, I would expect a more diverse crowd. It may come as a trickle but that is no reason for alarm. I am a meteorologist because that is what I want to do, not becuase I'm a caucasian male. It is what I wanted to do since I was four years old.

 

[Dave Kaplow]

Originally posted by joel ewing
Ok, let me jump in again....after reading the line \"would this have happened to a couple of middle aged white guys....
The answer is a resounding YES. It happens all the time. I think it was in '02 or '03...my cousin / chase partner Doren Berge and I were heading southbound on some road in the west central part of Texas...working our way to the Midland area. It might have been on hwy. 20. Anyhow, Doren...who is from the Boston area...which means that he doesn't do a whole lot of driving everyday like I do in the southwest....got pulled over by a state trooper. I was on the cellphone with the airlines trying to fix a snafu...and there were two troopers talking to Doren. Doren had gotten out of the vehicle, and was getting grilled by those guys. Now mind you, Doren is about early 40ish at that time.....and although he is one of the premiere guitar players in the northeast... (oh yeah....for real) the last thing he looks like is some rock God. I could tell by listening with one ear that the troopers were leaning on him pretty firmly. I ended my call, and got outside with the three of them. We had rented a Hertz Pontiac Aztec that season, and it really was a weird looking thing...albeit a damn good chase vehicle. Anyhow, one cop even blurted out....man....why would you rent this....you guys picked out a really UGLY truck. He didn't say it in jest, either. I thought...man, the audacity! Well, besides being a rock guitarist....Doren was at the time in command of LYCO'S world-wide advertising / web designing team........approx. 150 employees under him from different parts of the globe. A heavy, heavy, position and responsibility. Fortunately, he speaks beautifully as a result of being in that arena...and it showed to the cops. They eventually cooled out, and we even laughed...all of us...about the \"ugly truck\" comment. The troopers did tell us that in the plains states...which was agriculture / oil dominated for so long....that the jobs for younger guys in those little towns have dried up....and those that are staying there are turning to METH LABS to make ends meet. All cops are very aware of this....and have been busting younger guys (and older..like Doren and me...who's 50) also. They even admitted that they engaged us with some not-so-nice and somewhat heavy handed dialog....because this is how they tell if a driver IS cranked up on meth.....by his reaction.
I would bet my last dollar that this is the reason you got pulled over...not because you have (possibly?) darker skin than the cops. And is it possible....that you WERE weaving a little bit??
Incidently, the troopers gave my Cuz a warning. But....earlier in the week in Kansas......my ol' chasepartner and cousin got a big fat speeding ticket......which he deserved bigtime.
So you see........it isn't just you, bro.

Joel, can't you see the difference in the way you were treated compared to Jesal? Consider, from Jesal's account:

...a police car comes up next to my car, the officer looks at me and my friend who also happens to be Indian and then pulls us over. He comes up to us and tells us we were swerving our car (which I do not believe we were) and wanted to make sure we weren't intoxicated. Meanwhile another cop car comes as well to the scene. Both officers converse and then ask us if we have any drugs or weapons in our car and then make us step out and search us and the vehicle. It was quite an intimidating situation. After going through our bags in the trunk and looking through the car they let us drive on...

Now from yours:

got pulled over by a state trooper. I was on the cellphone with the airlines trying to fix a snafu...and there were two troopers talking to Doren. Doren had gotten out of the vehicle, and was getting grilled by those guys.

...I could tell by listening with one ear that the troopers were leaning on him pretty firmly. I ended my call, and got outside with the three of them. We had rented a Hertz Pontiac Aztec that season, and it really was a weird looking thing...albeit a damn good chase vehicle. Anyhow, one cop even blurted out....man....why would you rent this....you guys picked out a really UGLY truck. He didn't say it in jest, either. I thought...man, the audacity!

...Fortunately, he speaks beautifully as a result of being in that arena...and it showed to the cops. They eventually cooled out, and we even laughed...all of us...about the \"ugly truck\" comment.

...They even admitted that they engaged us with some not-so-nice and somewhat heavy handed dialog....because this is how they tell if a driver IS cranked up on meth.....by his reaction.

...the troopers gave my Cuz a warning.

Notice the difference? In Jesal's case another cruiser was called in immediately for backup. Did that happen to you? Were you asked to step out of the car and searched? Was your car searched thoroughly, including the trunk, even after you had explained who you were? No, none of those things happened, instead you and the police had a good old time laughing and joking, and they sent you on with a warning. I assure you that Jesal's experience was not as pleasant. He states plainly that he felt intimidated. He was NOT treated like you and your friend.

I often run into intelligent white men who are totaly cool in every respect except for a flat out refusal to believe that any real racial prejudice remains in this country. I am not saying you are like this or that this is what you believe - I don't know what you believe - but your comments are typical of the kind of thing these people say. The telling sentence is this one:

I would bet my last dollar that this is the reason you got pulled over...not because you have (possibly?) darker skin than the cops. And is it possible....that you WERE weaving a little bit??\"

Of course they were weaving a little! There's no other explanation, is there, because cops simply do not profile, do they?

I have no way to convince you that profiling and prejudice exist, all I ask is that you try to keep an open mind and admit to the possibility that it might. There was a professor at a local college here who gave a course that basically consisted of proving the existence of modern racism. The white students were asked at the beginning of the course if they believed race was a factor in various aspects of day to day life in CT, and most all said no, it was not. The instructor then paired the disbelievers up with minority members of the class with exactly similar backgrounds (financial, educational, etc.), dressed them in identical suits, and had them all go out and do various things like apply for a loan, or a job, or maybe just a table in a fancy restaurant. By the end of the semester the unbelievers are always shocked to a man at the results. The black people always have vastly different and always more negative experiences compared to the whites. One white guy was quoted in the papers as saying, "I can see it now. I never could, before." Perhaps you would say something similar, if you were to take a similar course. Or maybe I have read you completely wrong... It's so hard to judge a person based on a few posts. I appologize if I've offended you, that's not my intention at all. All I'm really trying to say is that minorities are often still victimized by racism and profiling, even in this supposedly enlightened age, and it's unfortunate that many otherwise good people do not seem to believe that it happens. Most white folks will never get a chance to see such a concrete demonstration as that college class did. It's unfortunate that in the absense of this kind of proof, many will continue to believe that everything is fine, and that racism in America is a thing of the past. I know from personal experience that it is not. Try and keep an open mind, that's all I'm asking. Maybe they weren't really weaving, and the cops used that familiar excuse to stop and search them because they looked suspicious. It's possible, and in my opinion, even probable. That's all I'm saying.


Dave

 

[Justin Turcotte]

minorities are often still victimized by racism and profiling

Not defending the practice but putting it in perspective. How about young males being profiled by the auto insurance industry. They cause more damage so they pay more than young females. Here is an example of profiling. Placing the burdon on the entire group for the actions of a portion of the group. Is this right? Every ad placed on TV or radio is more or less profiling an audience. Politicians profile voters. Now take a look at crime statistics (think proportionality here) and make your own judgement about racial profiling by law enforcement. Criminals have been profiled for a long time... The average serial killer is a white male. The average gang banger is a black male.

But we digress away from the original topic at hand.

 

[joel ewing]

Hi Dave. Unfortunately, I'm not computer literate as most everybody in here, so I do not know how to "grab" a portion of a person's text...and make it appear in my reply posts....so I can reply to it. So I'll respond in an overall manner.
I don't know if you've followed this topic from the very beginning, or read my piece a few days back where I tried to give a little background on how, aside from my primary home, I was half-raised in a black home. And what a blessing, as the parents of my (still) best friend since '66 were/are incredible people. Just a quick recap...the father started out in Oakland as a shoe-shine boy...and earned his way thru dental school. He's a democrat. Coolest guy on the planet. His wife (they're about 75-80yrs old now) is an intellectual heavyweight in her own right...and began her early years as being the famous Arizona senator / presidential candidate Barry Goldwater's personal executive secretary. (Are you old enough to be familiar with him?) She's a republican....and a feisty one. In the late 60's she was the first black person in the country to refuse to sign a traffic ticket given to her, because on the ticket were boxes where a person had to check their particular race. Thrown in jail....she immediately became huge national news....and because of her brave stance...they no longer have the race boxes on tickets. Ummm...does this sound a little familar to our current topic we're discussing...??? Don't think that we didn't discuss IN DEPTH around the dinner table after she got out of jail. I'm going thru this background to help paint a picture of the type of people that I'd sit down to dinner with nite after nite after nite. There was no "game-boy" or videos then....dinner was for discussions.
As far as the difference as to the way we were both treated when pulled over....I do not feel that there was much of a difference at all....at least initially. If I painted the picture that Doren started laughing and joking with the cops, I've painted it wrong. It was damn sure tense for a good ten minutes. In my mind, I was thinking that the interrogating officer was a freakin' power hungry jerk. His demeanor was over-amped as to the situation, in my mind. However, once things cooled out....as I've written before...he explained as to why they take that initial demeanor....they're looking for tweaked out drivers. Granted, our situation cooled out and got better, as Jesel's didn't. Without being a witness at his scene..it's just speculation on any of our parts. Quite frankly, I'm less inclined to think that because Doren and I were obviously not in our early-mid 20's...this might have helped.
And for God sakes...I'm not the proverbial white guy that refuses to think that there is no prejudice in this world. There is.......and it ain't always white guys being prejudicial against darker skinned folks....it for sure goes both ways.
Sorry, this has gone long. I've got more I could add, but I better save it for subsequent posts. Thanks

 

[joel ewing]

Ooops, just reread my post and I need to clean something up. Towards the end...I stated that I'm "less inclined"...bla bla bla. What I meant is that I AM inclined to think that Doren and my situation might have smoothed over a bit more readily than Jesel's because he and I were closer to the same age as the cops interrogating us...and we're obviously not in our early 20's.
thanks........