Weather deaths. Official rules?

[beaudodson]

I have been wondering this for awhile -

How does the NWS decide weather or not to count a death as "weather related"? Is there some "official" protocol?

If a tornado causes a car to blow off the road - does this count in the statistics? If a tree falls on a car because of high winds - does this count as a weather fatality? If a person drowns in a hurricane, while in a car, is this counted as a weather fatality? Flash floods and car related drownings?

I did find this page - http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/hazstats.shtml

Thanks

Beau

 

[Danny Neal]

I would think that if the death is caused by any sort of inclement weather that it would be counted as weather related. You would have to think had the weather/conditions not been so terrible that that driver would not have been crushed by a tree or driven into the high standing water. What I wonder is what if it is just a rainy day and someone is driving too fast for conditions and skids (not hydroplanes) into a tree and dies? Would that just go down as a general accident or weather related fatality. I guess using the process I used above, had the rain not been occurring there is nothing to say he would have skid around that turn and hit that tree.

I think the scenarios you brought up are all examples of weather related deaths. You have to think none of those situations would have occurred had there been no tornado, high wind, hurricane, or flooding rains.

 

[Mark E Cater]

RE: Weather deaths

Yes, interesting to note the number of "heat-related" deaths listed in the NWS page for the 10 year period-to prop up the global warming argument I suppose.

Thanks for the info,


M E Cater

 

[beaudodson]

I have always wondered why car related winter storm deaths are not considered weather related. I noticed here http://icyroadsafety.com/stats2008.php - that 477 people have been killed this year (winter season) because of icy roads.

If "weather safety" is the primary goal of the NWS (which I know it is) why doesn't this type of event get more attention? Tornadoes and "highly visible" weather events seem to grab the headlines and the media spotlight.

During a recent freezing rain event I noticed that the NOAA Weather Radio did not sound its "alert siren" when the advisory was issued. For tornado watches/warnings and severe thunderstorm watches/warnings the tone alerts always sound. Yet, this type of weather phenomenon kills far less people than icy roads.

A lot of people were caught off-guard by the icy roads, because the pavement simply "looked wet".

It seems like there should be more focus on winter storm events - as their impact can be substantial to both the economy and the public.

 

[Jason Foster]

You have to think in terms of insurance. Is it weather related, well, did another human contribute to the dealth. Most winter auto deaths are not counted likely because the accident tends to involve more than one vehicle, and is be definition the carelessness of another driver to maintain control.

The key term here is "act of God".

I don't know the exact elements, but I know this is constantly the battle with home insurance claims. It is the political side to which the NOAA divisions have to deal with that can change laws significantly and have huge impacts on the insurance and other industries.

 

[Adam Lucio]

I think its because winter weather is so much more common than tornadoes and hurricanes that not much attention gets put into them.

It snows every other day during the winter. People should be used to the conditions. However the NWS doesnt have a forecast probability tool for human ignorance [it would be near 100 percent everyday i think.] However, hurricanes and tornadoes dont happen as often so people can sort of....forget about what exactly can happen during those events, thus they need to be reminded.

I know its not the greatest mentality to have but to me thats the way I see it. It only takes an inch or maybe even less of snow to cause a horrific accident, if the media and NWS went bezerk with watches warnings and coverage everytime it was going to snow at least an inch, people would be furious their TV gets interrupted.

 

[Scott Weberpal]

I recall one of the deaths from the Siren, WI tornado some years ago was an after the fact death but was still counted as a weather death. A man was electrocuted by live power lines while helping with search and rescue after the storm.

 

[Chris Nuttall]

Yes, interesting to note the number of "heat-related" deaths listed in the NWS page for the 10 year period-to prop up the global warming argument I suppose.

Thanks for the info,


M E Cater

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe heat-related deaths were even counted until sometime in the 1990s. I think it was all the deaths in Chicago and Milwaukee in 1995 that may have begun this effort.

 

[Todd Krause]

I recall one of the deaths from the Siren, WI tornado some years ago was an after the fact death but was still counted as a weather death. A man was electrocuted by live power lines while helping with search and rescue after the storm.

Hi Scott...
The tornado of June 18, 2001 is officially listed with two fatalities. http://www4.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-win/wwcgi.dll?wwevent~ShowEvent~447676

A lot of news reports indicated there were three fatalities, with the third one being the electrocution you described. But NWS DLH never included that one in storm data.

Todd

 

[Todd Krause]

How does the NWS decide weather or not to count a death as "weather related"? Is there some "official" protocol?

Hi Beau...
The description of what to include is listed in the storm data directive. You'll see it in paragraph 2.6 of this (pages 9-12 of the long document): http://www.weather.gov/directives/sym/pd01016005curr.pdf

Hope this helps.
Todd

 

[Scott Weberpal]

Hi Scott...
The tornado of June 18, 2001 is officially listed with two fatalities. http://www4.ncdc.noaa.gov/cgi-win/wwcgi.dll?wwevent~ShowEvent~447676

A lot of news reports indicated there were three fatalities, with the third one being the electrocution you described. But NWS DLH never included that one in storm data.

Todd

Thanks for the clarification Todd, they only link I still had about that tornado is the UW link. Some good satellite and radar data (also lists the 3 fatalities hence my confusion on the issue)...

http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/goes/misc/010619/010619.html

 

[beaudodson]

Hi Beau...
The description of what to include is listed in the storm data directive. You'll see it in paragraph 2.6 of this (pages 9-12 of the long document): http://www.weather.gov/directives/sym/pd01016005curr.pdf

Hope this helps.
Todd

Thank you. That is what I was looking for. I will read it.