• After witnessing the continued decrease of involvement in the SpotterNetwork staff in serving SN members with troubleshooting issues recently, I have unilaterally decided to terminate the relationship between SpotterNetwork's support and Stormtrack. I have witnessed multiple users unable to receive support weeks after initiating help threads on the forum. I find this lack of response from SpotterNetwork officials disappointing and a failure to hold up their end of the agreement that was made years ago, before I took over management of this site. In my opinion, having Stormtrack users sit and wait for so long to receive help on SpotterNetwork issues on the Stormtrack forums reflects poorly not only on SpotterNetwork, but on Stormtrack and (by association) me as well. Since the issue has not been satisfactorily addressed, I no longer wish for the Stormtrack forum to be associated with SpotterNetwork.

    I apologize to those who continue to have issues with the service and continue to see their issues left unaddressed. Please understand that the connection between ST and SN was put in place long before I had any say over it. But now that I am the "captain of this ship," it is within my right (nay, duty) to make adjustments as I see necessary. Ending this relationship is such an adjustment.

    For those who continue to need help, I recommend navigating a web browswer to SpotterNetwork's About page, and seeking the individuals listed on that page for all further inquiries about SpotterNetwork.

    From this moment forward, the SpotterNetwork sub-forum has been hidden/deleted and there will be no assurance that any SpotterNetwork issues brought up in any of Stormtrack's other sub-forums will be addressed. Do not rely on Stormtrack for help with SpotterNetwork issues.

    Sincerely, Jeff D.

Was Harvey a Cat 4 Hurricane?

Stan Rose

EF5
Joined
Mar 8, 2006
Messages
513
Location
Pueblo, Colorado
I haven't been able to answer this question looking online in the news, so I'll pose it here.
Max wind gusts at landfall for Harvey from what I've seen were around 130 mph...most gusts were in the 100-110 mph range. Cat four requires *sustained* winds of at least 130 mph.
Now, from the damage pics I've seen, looks certainly possible that there were pockets of sustained 130+ mph. And the central pressure could arguably give some support too. But it doesn't seem like anyone is asking the obvious question (although I stay out of the social media fray so maybe I've missed it...)
So what am I missing?
 
The sparsity of data networks means we rarely have direct obs at landfall. It seems almost always the NHC numbers are higher than any obs though. In the end, it probably doesn't matter, but until we line up sticks every 100 yards along the entire shoreline we'll never really know :)
 
It's a good question. Rob already highlighted the issue with poor sampling. The highest gust reports I saw were in the 120-130 mph range, but those were gusts. As far as sustained winds, I don't know, but certainly lower than 120-130 mph.

I think NHC does something similar to NWS local offices for tornado damage surveys and reviews all the information on a landfalling tropical cyclone after the fact, and will probably eventually write a detailed report on the storm that may not be ready for months yet. Hell, Andrew didn't get upgraded to category 5 until years after the storm.
 
I believe the DOW group Tim Marshall was with had a gust of 134 and another one over 140, but they were unsure about the accuracy of the latter. I also saw a report somewhere of 110 sustained, although IIRC that may have been a little above ground level.
 
I recall the upgrade to Cat 4 being issued not long before it made landfall. IIRC it was a direct result from readings the hurricane hunters observed, but I was watching TWC so take it with a grain of salt.
 
The sparsity of data networks means we rarely have direct obs at landfall. It seems almost always the NHC numbers are higher than any obs though. In the end, it probably doesn't matter, but until we line up sticks every 100 yards along the entire shoreline we'll never really know :)


I always wondered about that, why the NHC *sustained* wind speed numbers seem to be higher than even any reported *gusts* . I think this is part of the reason some people don't seem to fear and respect hurricanes and resist the call to evacuate. I guess sparsity of data sites has something to do with it, but does it explain it completely?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
"Official" hurricane max winds are for open ocean. Sustained winds drop off dramatically over land. Also a lot of the samples from this storm look like they came out of the central or weak-side eyewall, with the stronger right eyewall less sampled. Given that, and the sparsity of surface obs previously mentioned, it looks like this forecast was in the right ballpark.
 
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