Tornado Safety - Cars vs. Ditches Controversy

[JamesCaruso]

In order to feel like it would be safer to abandon a perfectly good vehicle and dive into a ditch, it would have to be a scenario like driving along completely oblivious, and suddenly looking in the rearview and seeing a tornado unexpectedly riding my bumper like a road-rager. And even then I'd probably hesitate, because it seems to me that in the moments between your exiting the vehicle and entering the ditch, you're more vulnerable by several orders of magnitude than you would be in either the vehicle or the ditch.

Interesting discussion and thought-provoking. I am interested in the decision process that a chaser would go through in the critical moments of having to decide between a vehicle or a ditch. What would I do as a chaser??? It's a rhetorical question because I am not quite sure (and hopefully would never be in such a situation). Setting aside the question of whether a vehicle or a ditch is ultimately "safer," I agree with Jake that it is hard to imagine actually abandoning a vehicle, even IF a ditch were proven to be safer.

Jake's first sentence above is obviously tongue-in-cheek. As a chaser, you are not going to unexpectedly see a tornado on your bumper. A tornado is not a discrete object with a defined edge coming at you like a circular saw blade. You are going to experience the outer winds of the circulation somewhat gradually. Instinctively, you are going to keep driving to try to get out of it; you are not going to jump out of the car and wait for it. At some point you realize you are not going to make it, and it is too late to avoid the full brunt of the tornado. But now you are already enveloped by the winds. Are you really going to jump out of the car? Would you have the visibility and presence of mind to examine the type of ditch available to you? I agree with Jake that the transition between the car and the ditch would be the most dangerous, especially since in my imagined scenario this decision is now happening during the peak of the tornado.

I have never personally been close enough to experience this, but this how I imagine it would play out; those who have been through such an experience can correct me.

No matter how much we think we know about this subject, no matter how much we would like to think we won't panic and can/will make a rational decision, there is an instinctual self-preservation mechanism that I believe makes it extraordinarily difficult to make a conscious decision to leave a vehicle and go outdoors into a tornado that in my imagined scenario is already enveloping you. I assume most non-chasers that have done so, did it before the tornado was actually upon them and they did it because they always heard that's what they are "supposed" to do. As a chaser it seems that if you have enough time to do that, you are NOT going to do it, you are going to keep driving. And at the point you realize you are not going to make it out, it is going to take an incredible act of will to ignore your self-preservation instinct and actually get out of your vehicle.

 

[Skip Talbot]

As a chaser, you are not going to unexpectedly see a tornado on your bumper. A tornado is not a discrete object with a defined edge coming at you like a circular saw blade.

This scenario is entirely possible. My chase partners and I were talking about it after this last trip actually, specifically with these tornadoes:

The main multivortex was moving NNE at probably 30 mph or so. The satellite was moving E at something like 60-80 mph though. I could see one of the more "extreme" storm chasers nosing in as close as possible to the multivort, and then getting surprised by this very fast moving satellite coming out of the RFD with no time to get out of the way of it. If I were outside of my vehicle filming within the path of the satellite, I would probably just dive into the ditch rather than into my van. Tornadoes are fluid processes not discrete objects, but these tight drillbits have incredible winds confined to a very small space, much like that saw blade. This isn't a common situation, sure, but it's these uncommon ones that are going to bite chasers.

The more common scenario I think would be a chasers finding themselves unable to escape from a wedge due to a myriad of possibilities: their escape route unexpectedly ends, is blocked, flooded, or their vehicle becomes disabled or stuck. You'd have some time to consider the possibilities then, and personally I would be leaving my vehicle at that point for the lowest spot nearby given the likelihood that my vehicles is about to compacted into a little ball of steel.

Ideally, you'd expect chasers are well aware of what's happening around them, but it's when chasers lose this situational awareness that they become most vulnerable. It's a common problem, and I think that's when a chaser is going to be surprised to a see a tornado on their bumper. El Reno is a painful example. Knowing the outcome, I wish Samaras and crew had left their vehicle for the ditch. Maybe they'd still be with us today. On the other hand, perhaps Bettes and crew wouldn't have made it had they dove into the ditch.

I think the important lesson though is that there are no good options if you're in a car and cannot avoid being overtaken by a tornado. As a chaser, if you find yourself in this position, you've already made several compounding mistakes. A chaser that makes safety their top priority and is diligent about avoiding the most hazardous parts of the storm while maintaining good escape routes, should have a minimal chance of being placed in this situation such that after years and years of tornado intercepts, they'd never have to consider whether or not to abandon their vehicle. You should ask yourself, "What are the steps I can take to make sure I never encounter this situation?", rather than, "what's safer, the ditch or the car?".

 

[Tony Lehman]

I was interested in this thread as I have wondered about the ditch option all my life. There was a ditch across the street from our house where I grew up in Mississippi. We all had discussed the possibility of running to the ditch if a tornado were ever to come our way. The problem was after looking back on this idea, that in Mississippi it seemed most of the bad tornados came in the middle of the night. Dark and can't see. And during the day, there were so many trees around you had to walk around to see a patch of blue sky. So spotting a tornado before you could hear it wasn't possible. Nowdays tho, we have warnings and weather radar, satellites and such to help with the warnings.

Later, during the early 1970s (also before weather radar and satellite warnings) here in Texas, we lived just outside of town an a small 'oil' road. One early evening and after dark, a storm was brewing to our southwest - for maybe an hour we could hear the thunder rumbling and slowly getting closer. The thunder became incessant and I became worried, I stepped outside to look and could see the lightning flashes were continuous. The southwest sky and storm cloud looked like a welding shop full of students, there was continuous sparking in the clouds. Eventually I thought Tornado storm, because I had studied about severe storms and Spherics some. So I told the family a tornado is coming, we will all get into the car and out run it. My plan was to drive north towards town until I reached a cross hiway where we could drive at right angle to the path. Bad idea. We had gotten no more than a half mile up the road when I saw power flashes ahead, these were going off just over town and these green and blue flashes were illuminating the underside of a huge downward bulge in the cloud base. It was rapidly moving across my path. I knew it must be the tornado. I quickly found a driveway and turned around and headed back to the house.

By the time I pulled back into the driveway, the strong wind gust hit. We could hardly get the screen door open. Then we got inside as the whipping winds picked up. Must have been blowing 50 mph or so maybe stronger. Limbs flying everywhere. I heard a roar that I have never heard since, of the wind blowing thru the woods behind the house. Not a tornado rumble, but a strange moaning roar of wind thru the tree limbs (in February). Lasted about 10 minutes and then was gone.

Next day read the newspaper, a tornado did go thru town, some roofs gone, many trees snapped off, auto dealerships busted up. And to top it off, just a half mile south of our house, another tornado had crossed the oil road, snapped many tree limbs off and had emptied a private landfil across the road. All the paper produces were lining the trees downwind for at least a half mile. The trees by the road were completely papered.

So, had the tornado been a mile south of where it did cross, me and my family would have been sitting ducks out there on that road in the darkness. I was mad at myself for being so dumb.

Tony

 

[Robert S. Thompson]

If I recall correctly, on 5/31/13 a minivan with a family of 5 or 6 was hit on I-40. Their car was destroyed, and the mother and a week-old infant died - apparently she was trying to comfort the infant. However, everyone else, who was belted in, survived. I am inclined to think a modern car may be better than a ditch, given all the crash protection one gets nowadays.

 

[Greg Ansel]

Interesting discussion and thought-provoking. I am interested in the decision process that a chaser would go through in the critical moments of having to decide between a vehicle or a ditch. What would I do as a chaser??? It's a rhetorical question because I am not quite sure (and hopefully would never be in such a situation). Setting aside the question of whether a vehicle or a ditch is ultimately "safer," I agree with Jake that it is hard to imagine actually abandoning a vehicle, even IF a ditch were proven to be safer.

Jake's first sentence above is obviously tongue-in-cheek. As a chaser, you are not going to unexpectedly see a tornado on your bumper. A tornado is not a discrete object with a defined edge coming at you like a circular saw blade. You are going to experience the outer winds of the circulation somewhat gradually. Instinctively, you are going to keep driving to try to get out of it; you are not going to jump out of the car and wait for it. At some point you realize you are not going to make it, and it is too late to avoid the full brunt of the tornado. But now you are already enveloped by the winds. Are you really going to jump out of the car? Would you have the visibility and presence of mind to examine the type of ditch available to you? I agree with Jake that the transition between the car and the ditch would be the most dangerous, especially since in my imagined scenario this decision is now happening during the peak of the tornado.

I have never personally been close enough to experience this, but this how I imagine it would play out; those who have been through such an experience can correct me.

No matter how much we think we know about this subject, no matter how much we would like to think we won't panic and can/will make a rational decision, there is an instinctual self-preservation mechanism that I believe makes it extraordinarily difficult to make a conscious decision to leave a vehicle and go outdoors into a tornado that in my imagined scenario is already enveloping you. I assume most non-chasers that have done so, did it before the tornado was actually upon them and they did it because they always heard that's what they are "supposed" to do. As a chaser it seems that if you have enough time to do that, you are NOT going to do it, you are going to keep driving. And at the point you realize you are not going to make it out, it is going to take an incredible act of will to ignore your self-preservation instinct and actually get out of your vehicle.

Being in the El Reno tornado with 100+ mph winds ripping past my vehicle, I felt that if I even opened my door to try and ditch, my door would be ripped off and I would be pulled out before I could even reach a ditch. So I stayed in the truck as debris picked up to the point where I couldn't see feet in front of me and the truck felt like it was seconds from being either rolled or airborn. I don't think most chasers would bail and ditch because we are so used to getting close to these storms. When that "Oh crap" moment arrives, it's usually too late, and ditching by leaving the vehicle would probably be the less safe option. Just look at all the videos from chasers being hit with debris, getting out at that point would be messy.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Being in the El Reno tornado with 100+ mph winds ripping past my vehicle, I felt that if I even opened my door to try and ditch, my door would be ripped off and I would be pulled out before I could even reach a ditch. So I stayed in the truck as debris picked up to the point where I couldn't see feet in front of me and the truck felt like it was seconds from being either rolled or airborn. I don't think most chasers would bail and ditch because we are so used to getting close to these storms. When that "Oh crap" moment arrives, it's usually too late, and ditching by leaving the vehicle would probably be the less safe option. Just look at all the videos from chasers being hit with debris, getting out at that point would be messy.

Yes, Greg said it much better and more succinctly than I, it seems that there would be a period of trying to outrun the tornado followed by an "oh crap" moment at which point it is simply too late to leave a vehicle for a ditch, even IF the ditch was the objectively safer option.

But I get Skip's point too, that there could be a drill-bit tornado with a very defined edge to the tornadic winds. In that case, you might actually be able to bail out of the car before you experience tornadic winds - assuming you think the ditch is a safer place to ride it out.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dave Gallaher]

This video from Leighton, Alabama in 2008 is one of my favorite drill bit captures. I am guessing the storm is traveling at 45 or 50mph and doesn't spend much time churning the debris like a 20mph vortex would. But notice though the cars are thrown and two are banged together, none of them get crumpled. I'd think in this case being in the vehicle would be safer than anywhere less than a perfect ditch, and especially safer than attempting to get into a ditch in the windfield:

http://youtu.be/hSa8Pk-03JA

 

[Jeff Wright]

Those really narrow tornadoes will hurt folks in a shallow depression and hurl them around. The angles of attack change too fast to brace yourself.

Weak tornadoes can be among the most deadly. A big wedge will blow a house away. A weaker one? It will shove it just enough that crap falls into the basement and crushes you.

Each situation is different.

 

[rdale]

Weak tornadoes can be among the most deadly

Actually no, the data is quite convincing that strong tornadoes are more deadly/

 

[ChristofferB]

Knowing the outcome, I wish Samaras and crew had left their vehicle for the ditch. Maybe they'd still be with us today. On the other hand, perhaps Bettes and crew wouldn't have made it had they dove into the ditch.

Last summer, almost on the anniversary, we drove by the ditch where his son and partner apparently would have exited the car (as far as I understand, they did) and the place where the car ended up, half a mile away. The ditch was more of lowering with a creek than an actual ditch, as far as I remember. There and then, looking at that lowering and imagining the wedge behind me, it was clear to me that if one ends up in an extreme situation like that it will only be a matter of coincidences that will determine if you survive or not. But I guess the interesting part of this discussion is the more likely event of less powerful tornadoes.

I think my instinct would be to stay in the car unless there were an apparently better solution. I guess the interesting part of this is, should you:

1. Unbuckle and try to get down low - This will shield you from the glass and debris flying in through shattered windows but in case the car is thrown, you are going to get badly hurt in the tumble.

2. Remain buckled and crouch in an airplane crash way (perhaps by letting go of the upper part of the seat belt). This will get you more exposed to shattered glass and expose more surface to the sides of the car (i.e. more surface where large debris can hit you), than getting down on the floor. It should however be safer in case the car starts to tumble.

Basically, in case of a relatively weak tornado (that will not throw your car) it may be a better option to get down low in the car, but for a stronger tornado you may have better chances to survive remaining buckled up. The million-dollar-question is of course knowing if the tornado is strong enough, especially in a panicky situation.

Btw, amazing photo Skip!

 

[Warren Faidley]

Over the years, I've been in multiple situations where I had to think about finding an emergency place to survive, mostly before we had radar.

Clovis, Grand Island, Shamrock, Midland, Childress, Aberdeen, Oklahoma City and the list goes on. It's very difficult at night, when you are in hotel. I generally don't settle in now days until all threats have passed -- put $#iT happens, including flat tires. Just last year, we had to drive south out of Goodland to avoid a PM tornado warning. If I'm on the road, and cannot escape, my first choice would be a culvert pipe. Snakes be dammed! Years ago, we were trapped by destructive hail and a reported tornado near OKC. I routed everyone off I-35 and pulled under a bank drive through. (Nice sturdy brick building). Had we seen a large tornado approaching, I was ready to try and blast out the door of the bank with my Glock so we could seek shelter inside. (The bank was closed).

W.

 

[Rob H]

Had we seen a large tornado approaching, I was ready to try and blast out the door of the bank with my Glock so we could seek shelter inside. (The bank was closed).

Quoting for posterity, lol.

edit: was this bank surrounded by quicksand, or on a dead end street with spike strips? I'm trying to imagine a scenario where a storm could produce a violent tornado and I'm content hunkering down in one place with no escape options. That seems like an absolute worst case scenario, I'll break all my windows in gorilla hail and drive through a farmer's field before committing to it, kind of thing.