Storm Tour Cancellations

[joel ewing]

With the potentially long standing outlook for blue skies throughout the alley, my thoughts turned to the many tornado tour groups that are in operation now..and I was curious about a few things. I was wondering if there was some kind of standard cancellation / "bailout" policy that tour groups offer? Can folks receive some kind of partial refund? And....those that do fly in and expect to be driven around....where in the world would you take them??
Lastly, has there ever been a situation where a tour operator has actually cancelled an entire segment of a tour?
Right now, I'm thanking my lucky stars that I don't own or drive for one of these outfits. Can you imagine carting around a van full of long-faced, grumpy, dejected clients that have saved up their bucks and flown from places like Japan to see a tornado...during the statistically most probable timeslots to see tornadic action?? Hewww maaaan....just conjure that picture up in your mind.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I don't think it would be entirely fair for the tour operator to bear the cost of a refund if a guest cancelled due to a ridge. A tour operation has to pay its fixed expenses regardless of the weather, and the owners/drivers have to keep their own bills paid. If I'd have taken two months off of work to run tours, I'd have to keep the mortgage and car payment covered somehow if the season went totally bust.

Many of the outfits are recommending traveler's insurance for this reason - I think that is the best way to go. Nonetheless, I think it's made clear to most potential guests that there are no guarantees with the weather, and a 'bust' is just as possible as tornadofests are.

 

[joel ewing]

I'm not sure how what I wrote could be construed as suggesting that tour companies would possibly be fiscally responsible for cancelling a leg of a tour.
Rather, I was wondering if indeed a particular week of a given tour season was ever cancelled by any of the tour companies...particularly when the weather pattern looks like it might be very stagnant for a subtantial period of time. I would guess that strong wording within a company's contract with their clients would clearly state that there are "No Guarantees" that said tour will encounter severe weather. Given the current outlook...I could envision a scenario possibly unfolding where all or nearly all of the scheduled clients might opt to cancel themselves from beginning their tour...especially when their highly anticipated tour looks like it might mean sitting in the middle of the alley and get sunburned. Of course this would depend on how much of a refund they would receive, etc. etc.
Just curious about this...nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

From my perspective, I would think a tour operator would not be conducting very good business practices if they would continue with a tour when it is reasonably known will produce no severe weather observations.
I guess it would depend upon what the tour company owner(s) want. Are they more interested in only making money or keeping a good and fair reputation?
If it was only a couple of days out of a week or 10 day trip, then that is part of the trip. But if it is known with a reasonable certainty that there will be none or only a day or so of potential severe weather, I would say refund the money, issue a credit, or make other arangements with the customer.
I would not think a ski vacation would continue if there was no snow or an ocean cruise continuing if the weather is too bad.
Interesting question though.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I'm not sure how what I wrote could be construed as suggesting that tour companies would possibly be fiscally responsible.

Not at all. What I meant is that a tour guest should understand up-front that the weather is unpredictable, and that the operator by default will run the tour 'rain or shine'. Ridging happens, and is in fact probably more likely to be encountered on a tour than a nice SW flow period - especially if one has to pick a fixed 7-10 day period from April-June. Even in the best of seasons, most tourists are going to end up chasing during a 'down week' one way or another. The difference with a 'death ridge' year is that all of the tourists experience that.

There are a lot of up-front expenses with running an organized tour, and if all the guests canceled, the operator would lose money out-of-pocket if he had to refund everyone during every downtime. If I ran a larger tour with big vans, permits, liability insurance and 3 unpaid months off of my day job, I would stand to lose big if I bound myself to give refunds due to downtime. The insurance company wouldn't refund my premiums due to a ridge, nor would the government refund my permits and the bank would still require me to make payments on the vans. If that was me, I'd recommend that the guests purchase travel insurance so that neither of us would suffer financial loss due to a ridge.

All of that said, I think most tour guests are happy to just be out in the Plains chasing and seeing any severe storm they can. A lot of the clientele comes from parts of the world that see little to no severe weather. Most are satisfied with things like a NW flow stacked-plate supercell - so a few events like that in Montana or North Dakota might be worth not bailing on a tour completely for most.

 

[David Wolfson]

In 2002 the tour I was on went back to OKC five days early facing the Death Ridge. That's about as bad as it gets. Like Dan says you can usually scrape up a few photogenic supercells up on the Canadian border or southwest Texas. Of course it didn't look like a slice of July....

 

[joel ewing]

I'm a business owner, have been for many years. When I posed this question to the S.Track clan, in the back of my mind I had heard somewhere long ago, that there were clauses in some or maybe all of the tour owner's contracts with their clients that there was the possibility of a partial refund in the case of a cancellation...under certain circumstances (enough lead time prior to cancellation, etc. etc. ). What I was looking for in my question were not the nuts and bolts of the fiscal end of any cancellations....simply, has anybody ever heard of the tour operators / owners themselves ever cancelling a tour when conditions began to look bleak on the horizon weatherwise...that's all. I guess if I owned a tour, and I was faced with the scenario that's unfolding before us....I'd probably be on the phone with each of the clients saying something like..."hey, here's our situation....there's a 99 per cent chance that for the next 7 to 10 days (or whatever) that there will not be any tornadic storms. The outlook is very bleak. We have the option of refunding a portion of your money...or...you can fly in and each day we'll try to take you to a place that might interest you...such as the "world's biggest ball of twine". etc. etc. As the agent for Joel's Tornado Tours...I can refund 75% of your money (just a random figure)...or we can see the big ball of twine and the Dalton Clan hideout." Mr. Joe Blow (or Mr. Hawzikawa)...what would you like to do????

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

There are a lot of up-front expenses with running an organized tour, and if all the guests canceled, the operator would lose money out-of-pocket if he had to refund everyone during every downtime. If I ran a larger tour with big vans, permits, liability insurance and 3 unpaid months off of my day job, I would stand to lose big if I bound myself to give refunds due to downtime. The insurance company wouldn't refund my premiums due to a ridge, nor would the government refund my permits and the bank would still require me to make payments on the vans. If that was me, I'd recommend that the guests purchase travel insurance so that neither of us would suffer financial loss due to a ridge.

Dan or maybe a tour operator,
Just a question as I have not encountered this scenario obviously, but do you think a travel policy would cover such an event or lack of?
I have purchased many travel policies for like overseas trips or a cruise, but have not seen any mention of something like this, although I did not look either.
I have seen snow sking trips cancelled due to no snow and the tour operator realized there was no snow for the trip. So refunds were given by the tour operator and not an insurance policy. I think I am correct also on cruises, if the weather is so severe that they will not go out, then they issue a refund or credit.

 

[Jim Zandonai]

I was just thinking of this same thing and found this thread..
You know I guess it puts the tour operator in a tough spot. They aren't happy there is nothing to chase,the guests are not happy either. Thats the risk of slapping down 2-3K. You are basically betting on something happening during that time of your tour well in advance. If nothing happens you lose. Thats the risk. There is no guarantee on anything. It's not good for anyone..too many busted tours and business goes down as people realize there is risk that you may get skunked.
I am sure Vortex2 too isnt too happy with the current trend either..again you never know.

 

[Scott Weberpal]

Unfortunately, tour owners have many up front costs that will end up as significant losses if a tour is canceled. Insurance, salary for guides (usually contractors whom the owner has obligated to pay), etc. all have to be paid regardless of whether or not the tour happens. There will be storms in the next 10 days, perhaps sub-severe, but that's a risk that a guest takes when they sign up for a tour. Yes, there's a good chance the return rate of guests during a ridge will be very low, but that's a risk you take as a tour owner.

What do you do if there are a few guests who want to take the tour regardless? Do you take an even bigger loss and take only a few people on the tour?

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

Yeah, I am sure the situation here is pretty different from a regular full time tour group operation that runs some kind of tours all 12 months of the year compared to a few months. So the chance of a business loss is greater with a chase tour operation if refunds are made.
It would still be interesting to know if the travel insurance policies would honor a part-time tour group and this type of operation for a "lack of severe weather."

 

[Warren Faidley]

This is a good question. What I have done with my one on one "volunteer chase adventures," is to offer another date if available. If not, they can apply the deposit to another year, week or different adventure, like a monsoon adventure. If not, the deposit is forfeited. Its not about money and I personally hate taking a person's money without providing something, even though its a business. I do understand why larger tour groups cannot do this because of upfront costs. A guest can obtain "travel insurance" through a third party for about $160.00 per thousand of cost. This covers cancellations. Regardless, its a gamble, just like many adventures. I know a guy who invested over 10k for an Everest tour and had to cancel -- he lost it all.

W.

 

[Bill Hark]

I think most reputable tour groups are up front about the possibility of periods of down times and most tourists also understand this uncertainty. I have also heard of tour groups turning away prospective clients who have unrealistic expectaions.

I think giving a refund is unrealistic considering the costs of running a tour. Even the biggest tours are small in comparison to a ski tour operator who gives a partial refund for lack of snow. A few tourists can mean the difference between huge loss and profit or just breaking even. One must also remember that many of the tourists have never seen large hail or a severe storm. There can be amazing beauty in a non severe storm over the Plains, sunset, rainbow or puffy white clouds floating over Palo Duro Canyon. Good tour operators will usually take their groups to local areas of interest such as Carlsbad, Monument Rocks or even the giant ball of string. OK, that may provoke a yawn to us seasoned chasers but for many of the tourists, these things are interesting. An evening at the Big Texan, some golf ball-sized hail, dust storm, an armadillo, a trip to the Twister Museum and wandering around Palo Duro canyon would be a very nice trip for someone who has not been to the Plains or even the United States.

I haven't been on a chase tour in over 10 years as I now chase myself but I have been on some deep sea fishing trips. I have been skunked on at least half of those fishing trips. Yes, I still paid the captain even if there were no fish. I know the captain did his best to find fish. To refuse to pay him the full fee would have been unreasonable.

Bill Hark

 

[Dan Robinson]

I have also heard of tour groups turning away prospective clients who have unrealistic expectaions.

After getting my feet wet with potential private tour guest phone calls for this season, I can concur with this. I think any tour operation is wise to screen potential clients to make sure they 1.) fully understand how chasing works, 2.) make sure they're really up to the rigors of the activity, and 3.) willing to accept the risk of busting.

There are some people who call and I know right away that they are the last people I want to spend a week in a car with, even on a good string of outbreaks let alone a blue-sky death ridge.

 

[Drew.Gardonia]

I don't know why there should be any refunds at all. But here's my perspective.

In my opinion it's the same as when you go fishing or hunting. You buy the license, the fishing pole, the tackle, the fillet knife and bait, or the hunting rifle/shotgun, ammo, and just because you don't catch or shoot anything, doesn't mean the state is going to refund your money for the license and equipment.

I know it would suck to throw a couple grand down on a tour and not see anything, but that's just life.

By that logic, Vegas should refund everyone's money that gambles.

If people are worried about the money, then they should take the College of DuPage tour, as it's only $920 for your first time for 10 days out, and $720 for each additional tour. Lessens their financial liability.

Now I haven't been on any pay tours, but I'd be willing to bet you get more out of the COD Tours, than you would with say a company like Tempest Tours, or Storm Chasing Tours, or Silver Lining Tours that all charge about $1500-$3000 for 5-10 days on the Plains.

COD gives you 3 college credits for going, they teach you about how to read the weather models, and make your own forecasts and predictions (at least that's what the website claims...I do not speak from experience).