Sony HDR-SR12

[Jason Montano]

I was wondering if anyone had experience with the Sony HDR-SR12? Looking at the review on camcorderinfo.com it appears to be a big improvement for HD, HDD camcorders. The features and video quality show a good improvement over its predecessor. I am not that experienced with camcorders however and was wondering if anyone had an opinion or experience with this piece of equipment.

 

[Mike Peregrine]

I looked at this model as well. Just a couple things that caused me to think about going another direction (which may not be a big deal to you) ... this camera uses AVCHD format, which is coming into its own but not perfect yet (and still has some quality problems when compared with regular HD). I like the IDEA of these solid state cameras for chasing. But if your goal is to edit your video (and not just play back using the cam), you'll have to make sure your other hardware will handle the file sizes and work well with AVCHD files. These files don't transfer like data that is streaming on tape, in that your computer will recognize the camera and then you copy/paste the file similar to working with photos. The file sizes are huge, so you have to have a pretty slick computer and good editing software.

The other thing I would watch with this camera is low light performance. This review doesn't have info on low light in the performance tab, so you may want to do some more research. It's pretty noticeable that low-light is not strong in these new HD cameras at all, but it's really important to most chasers.

 

[Jason Montano]

Mike thanks for the info. Though I think from the review it said this camera does a little better at reducing low light noise than ones before it. I am a little iffy about this format camera and low light results compared to 3 ccd MiniDV though.

 

[AlDanks]

Jason (or anyone else)

Did you go ahead and get the Sony HDR-SR12? I am also leaning that direction. I record a lot of video for our high school wrestling team. I can happily do that in SD mode until our wrestling community has moved to HD playback capability. I figure I can use either SD or HD for storm chasing - until I get HD playback capability.

I like the ability to move away from having to carry a batch of tapes and quickly switch tapes during tournaments. Same with having to split the matches off the tape when I get home.

 

[AlDanks]

Forgot to post features in case anyone had an opinion on them:

Sony HDR-SR12 High-definition 120-gigabyte Hard Drive Camcorder

# Records/Plays High-definition (1080i) or standard-definition video on a 120GB built-in hard drive
# 120GB holds approximately:
- High-definition: (FH) 14 hrs. and 50 min. (HQ) 29 hrs. and 40 Min. (SP) 36 hrs. (LP) 48
- Standard-definition: (HQ) 29 hrs. and 40 min. (SP) 44 hrs. (LP) 84 hours and 20 min.
# Format(s) Supported : HD: MPEG4 AVC/H.264 SD: MPEG2
# Memory Stick Media Slot
# 5-megapixel CMOS image sensor
# 1920 x 1080 Video Resolution
# 10.2 Megapixel Stills
# Capture digital stills while shooting high-definition video
# Manual focus, exposure, shutter speed and white balance

 

[Jason Foster]

HG21 from Canon.

A friend of mine just picked up the Canon HG20 and like it, seemed pretty good. Videomaker magazine (jan.2009) just reviewed it's sibling the HG21, which only upgrades the HD capacity and has a color viewfinder. Videomaker was quite happy with the product and gave it a good review. If the low light is good as it seemed in some winter testing, than it would be satisfactory enough for a MSRP $1300 camera (I'm sure they're cheaper on the street/store). As with the other note though, it is AVCHD, so do your due diligence with computer editing needs/requirements.

 

[Chris C Sanner]

There are a few very important things to consider when thinking about going with an AVCHD (or any tapeless camcorder):

1)Editing: If you are going tapeless, you had better be doing it for editing reasons. Editing without the 'linearness' that a tape provides is wonderful, but the software and hardware is just only now catching up with the AVCHD format. That means you need to have a new video editor and a new computer to really make this work well. Final Cut Express and a Macbook pro here gets the job done. If you don't edit your video, I would honestly stick with a cheaper HDV camcorder because.....

2)Storing Video: Just be ready to store your files on a Hard Drive and a bunch of DVDs. For me, I do things a bit overboard but its for good reason, losing ANY video sucks....bad. So what I would do is buy a good high capacity (500gb+) external hard drive (or seven) and put all of your video clips on there. Also, I'd burn em onto a DVD as well and store those DVDs in a very safe area (safe, bank safe deposit box, etc.) so you know if anything does happen to your house...you still haven't lost your video. Overboard? Maybe...but my video is pretty darned valuable to me

3)Dealing with the eventual Hard Drive crash of the cam: The Sr-12 is a 120gb HD camcorder...if you fill it up, you had better have a good excuse...such as a 7 hour long wedgefest one day. What I mean is that you should always be taking video off of the thing every day and storing it in a safe spot. Sooner or later, that hard drive in the camera is going to fail....you don't want all your chase season footage on it and nowhere else when it does. A backup camera is always something I'd recommend...but not everyone has the ability to buy two cameras, if you have the money though, the peace of mind that grants you is amazing

I think that's the basic jist of going tapeless. Don't get me wrong, it's a great step to make...but you just have to be prepared because it's a bit different than handling tapes and there are some concerns you have to adapt your gameplan to. Otherwise, it's a worthy investment to make

 

[AlDanks]

There are a few very important things to consider when thinking about going with an AVCHD (or any tapeless camcorder):

2)Storing Video: Just be ready to store your files on a Hard Drive and a bunch of DVDs.

3)Dealing with the eventual Hard Drive crash of the cam: The Sr-12 is a 120gb HD camcorder...if you fill it up, you had better have a good excuse...such as a 7 hour long wedgefest one day. What I mean is that you should always be taking video off of the thing every day and storing it in a safe spot. Sooner or later, that hard drive in the camera is going to fail....you don't want all your chase season footage on it and nowhere else when it does. A backup camera is always something I'd recommend...but not everyone has the ability to buy two cameras, if you have the money though, the peace of mind that grants you is amazing

Thanks for the input.

2) My current camera is a Sony Digital 8 camera. I currently burn my tapes off onto DVD and store them anyway. This process should be quite a bit faster from a hard drive camera.

3) I routinely record 5+ hours at a time for Saturday HS wrestling tournaments. This probably won't be in HD for a while though.

I would not dream of storing my video on the camera. Too vulnerable.

Regarding the AVCHD. It is my understanding that this would only be for video I record in HD and that video recorded in SD would be in a more editable mpeg 2 format. Is this incorrect? (If I go ahead with the purchase I currently plan on B&H and I expect they will be able to answer my questions in that area.)

 

[Chris C Sanner]

If you want to record video in SD on an HD camcorder you might as well get an SD cam for $300 less. Of course, I'm sure you are talking about splitting time depending on the 'job' you are filming. In that case, I'm pretty sure the SD files will be much easier to handle, but I would almost recommend you record everything in HD. You can't up-convert footage and make it look awesome, but you can always go down

Another thing, I would always bring your old camera along just in case the HD did fail or something. Just my .02

 

[Tony Cook]

I am trying to decide whether or not to go with the SR12 or one of the miniDV models (HC7 or HC9). A couple of things I have stumbled across about the SR12 have caught my attention.

1) Hard Drive recorder is sensitive to vibrations. It has a "drop sensor" that will temporarily stop recording/playback if it detects too much vibration. I think this is a big potential negative from a chasing perspective. Here is one review that details the problem:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member..._pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview

And another:
http://forums.cnet.com/5208-7594_102-0.html?forumID=59&threadID=321392

I downloaded the SR12 manual, and you CAN disable the drop sensor. Of course, you run a greater risk of damaging the drive. The manual is here for those interested:
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=HDRSR12

Select "Handycam handbook" under Manuals. See pages 5 and 81 for details.

2) Also on page 5 of the manual, this nugget:
"Do not turn on the camcorder in a low-pressure area, where the altitude is more than 3000m (9800 ft). Doing so may damage the hard disk drive of your camcorder." That works out to around 700 mb, so probably not a big deal, unless you want to use the camera in the Rockies.

I think these issues are probably inherent with any hard-drive camcorder. Definitely interested to hear any input from folks who are using the SR11 or 12, or other hard-drive based recorders.

TonyC

 

[Skip Talbot]

How about the Canon HG21? This is Canon's comparable model to the SR12 with a 120GB harddrive, and from most reviews I have read it has better picture quality than the SR12. I tried googling to find out if this camera also had issues with vibrations, but wasn't able to dig anything up. It does say it has an anti-shock harddrive in the specs, whatever that means. Perhaps it handles vibrations better than the Sony and doesn't crap out from loud noises? Even so, is there a way to dampen the shock on a dashcam mount?

 

[David Poch]

Here are a few tips if you are going with the Sony.

I bought the HDR-SR5 back when it was new. One of the things I hated about it was the fact that if you were in a dimly lit area sometimes the recorded video would have a stutter to it since it was trying to film something moving and adjusting the exposure. I finally figured out that one of the default settings was causing this, once I turned it off it never had the stutter again.

If it still applies to the SR-12 then the setting you want to make sure you turn off is the Auto Slw Shutter that can be found in the menu under movies settings.

I never had any vibration issues with my SR-5 mounted on a tripod in my truck, and my truck is not the smoothest ride at all. I think I had it mess up one time when I hit a huge pot hole on I-40 and the shock protection kicked in.

Another program that I like to use is a plug in for Sony Vegas is Gear shift by Vasst. What it does it make proxy files from your AVCHD or HDV video so you can edit them in real time on a slower computer. After you make your edits you click one button to replace the proxy files with your HD media. It has worked well for me and well worth the $49.99. You can find it here http://www.vasst.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=102&category_id=74&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=66

 

[Chris C Sanner]

How about the Canon HG21? This is Canon's comparable model to the SR12 with a 120GB harddrive, and from most reviews I have read it has better picture quality than the SR12. I tried googling to find out if this camera also had issues with vibrations, but wasn't able to dig anything up. It does say it has an anti-shock harddrive in the specs, whatever that means. Perhaps it handles vibrations better than the Sony and doesn't crap out from loud noises? Even so, is there a way to dampen the shock on a dashcam mount?

The HG21 is an excellent camera, very comparable to the HV20/30 that gets rave reviews around the net (and around here even). The problem is that I think they took out some easy to access manual features such as manual focus and made it all menu driven. Honestly, most people probably won't care about that if they are storm chasing as you are just trying to get the shot more often than not.

 

[Tony Cook]

The HG21 is an excellent camera, very comparable to the HV20/30 that gets rave reviews around the net (and around here even). The problem is that I think they took out some easy to access manual features such as manual focus and made it all menu driven. Honestly, most people probably won't care about that if they are storm chasing as you are just trying to get the shot more often than not.

What about the low-light capability of the Canon? I have read a couple of knocks on that, but I don't honestly know how the SR12 does there either. I know my Sony Digi-8 has nice low-light capability, so I am more comfortable going with the Sony in that department. The manual focus thing drives me crazy, personally, but as long as you can set it at infinity and it stays there, guess it's not that big a deal. I will read up on it some more.

Thanks for your input, also, David. I am still a bit nervous about vibration issues, but it is good to hear that the SR5 is fairly tolerant of bumps.

Thanks,
TonyC

 

[Skip Talbot]

What about the low-light capability of the Canon? I have read a couple of knocks on that, but I don't honestly know how the SR12 does there either.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Canon-Vixia-HG20-Camcorder-Review-35510/Performance.htm

Looks like the Canon wins because it offers the ability to record in 1080p at 24fps, while the Sony only does 1080i at 60fps. The lowered framerate apparently helps the low light performance substantially. However, at 1080i 60fps the Canon is comparable to the Sony.

The manual focus thing drives me crazy, personally, but as long as you can set it at infinity and it stays there, guess it's not that big a deal. I will read up on it some more.

That's a critical feature for me as I'm going to be using the camera as a dashcam, and want set the focus and forget about it.