Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6 EX DC HSM - Examples and Advice needed

[Christopher E. Kincaid]

It is possible you got a bad one. Where did you buy it from? I saw Adorama selling some "new" ones on ebay. I asked them if they were new ones that had been returned by a previous buyer and got no answer to my question. If you got yours from there, then perhaps I was right.

Otherwise, hopefully you bought it somewhere that you can exchange it for another one. The lens is generally thought of as pretty darn good (see this thread:http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-slr-lens-discussion/84539-sigma-10-20mm-club.html for examples).

I hope to have one for my K200D shortly.

I got mine from Amazon. I asked for a replacement and at first was told to contact Sigma for a warranty exchange! A nasty email from me took care of that an I got a second one. It was better, but still not good. I know UWAs are a different breed, but if I gotta crop the sides out (especially the left side) to get rid of the softness/blurring then what's the point of going UW? I wanted the Tokina 11-16 but couldn't find one so I settled for the next best bang-for-the-buck UWA the Sigma. I am not happy and will send them both back. Both lens were so bad I couldn't get my XTi to AF on anything but the center at 10mm. I called Tokina's distributor today and they said Adorama and B&H had some. I checked B&H and it said in stock! I was shocked because I have been watching for weeks and not finding any except on eBay (don't trust) and the bait-n-switch stores. I should have it on the 3rd.

Here is a good review of the Tokina:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tokina/11-16mm.htm

 

[Darren Addy]

Yeah, well you should know that Ken Rockwell is pretty reviled for his opinions in a lot of places, so I wouldn't take one guy's opinion as Gospel. I wish I even had the option of the Tokina f2.8 for Pentax, but it is only available for Canon/Nikon.

You should expect some softness at the corners at 10mm. If you don't want that then perhaps you should get the Sigma 12-24mm (in Rockwell's evaluation) because it is made to cover fullframe 35mm, so if anything it would be soft at the 35mm corners... not the APC-S corners.

More discussion about AF problems with this lens:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/sigma10-20/discuss/72157622975085459/

I personally don't especially care for autofocus and can live without it. Have you considered turning off AF and focusing it manually?

 

[Christopher E. Kincaid]

I certainly don't mean to put the Sigma down, it's just that I am not impressed with the two samples I got. I mean look at the examples in this thread. They are awesome! I really don't think the two I got would take such nice pictures.

Here is another review of the Tokie vs the Canon 10-22:

http://www.pbase.com/lightrules/1022v1116

 

[Derek Weston]

I certainly don't mean to put the Sigma down, it's just that I am not impressed with the two samples I got. I mean look at the examples in this thread. They are awesome! I really don't think the two I got would take such nice pictures.

Here is another review of the Tokie vs the Canon 10-22:

http://www.pbase.com/lightrules/1022v1116

No offense.... but are you sure you were focused tightly? Were you on a tripod -- stable shooting? (at 1/60 much movement would get you still)

What do you you know about the relationship of lens aperture and focal ratio? And then how iso factors into the equation?

The ultimate sharpness test, of course, is to get a completely stable setup (tripod) and manually focus in. If you've got liveview (latest generation of canon EOS -- xsi, t1i, 50d, etc) switch to that, and zoom in 5x to 10x on your target while on a tripod. Manually fine tune the focus. This is a great tool.

Auto mode isn't the best test. In fact, to get the most out of your camera, you're going to want to get past auto mode... the strength of an SLR system lies in the end users ability to 'customize' their shots.

Of course, that said, there could be an auto focus issue that wouldn't be addressed if you were to test only manually. (of course, you need to know how to use your cameras autofocus to the best of its ability, it can't guess what you want to shoot)

Note sure what body you've got, but sometimes sigma lens computer chips aren't compatible with certain bodies in a line...even if they mount fine. (apparently this is because sigma reverse engineers the chip to match canon/nikon/whatnot.... instead of getting the chips from the company itself)

Please don't take offense to all of what I just said - maybe you're familiar with what I've said. I just didn't want to see you get your next copy here and again be disappointed... by something that's your doing, and not the lens. (had seen you mention you're new to this all)

(I was a new SLR user back in November, myself.... I had a few dopey problems.... and am still learning of course... but the resources of SLR photography are vast, and you should be able to get up to speed on essential concepts quickly)

 

[Christopher E. Kincaid]

Yeah, well you should know that Ken Rockwell is pretty reviled for his opinions in a lot of places, so I wouldn't take one guy's opinion as Gospel. I wish I even had the option of the Tokina f2.8 for Pentax, but it is only available for Canon/Nikon.

You should expect some softness at the corners at 10mm. If you don't want that then perhaps you should get the Sigma 12-24mm (in Rockwell's evaluation) because it is made to cover fullframe 35mm, so if anything it would be soft at the 35mm corners... not the APC-S corners.

More discussion about AF problems with this lens:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/sigma10-20/discuss/72157622975085459/

I personally don't especially care for autofocus and can live without it. Have you considered turning off AF and focusing it manually?

The KenRockwell review is pretty good because he shows lots of examples. On the internet it is easy to find revulsion for anyone. There are plenty of stories about issues with this lens and I knew that before I ordered it. If you could see the differences between the two examples that I have you would understand where I am coming from. Seeing these differences sure would make it difficult to ever believe that one had the best example of the lens. If I have to manually focus, why did I pay for AF? I mean I was shooting in my living room from my recliner. It should not be too hard for the AF and lens to come up with a sharp picture at 1/60 shutter speed. If you get that lens I hope you get a better example than the two I got. I suggest you get it from a store like Amazon that will let you exchange often because you may need to.

 

[Joe beier]

There's your problem. You shutter speed is too slow for handheld. The image is blurry as a result, not out of focus. Well, it's hard to tell if it's out of focus but it is definitely blurry. Also, the image is overexposed. Try increasing the shutter speed and iso a bit.

60th of a second is usually a good area to start handheld. Anything less is usually too slow ... what I'm thinking is he needs to go up a couple stops to maybe ... ehh ... f/6 or higher. With f/4 there's going to be things out of focus in the image, it's inevitable.


Also ken rockwell is a good baseline "get a feel for things" type site. He has some good information and some bad information. I'm not saying his reviews are crap I'm just saying don't take EVERYTHING he says to heart. I've read a few things that made me laugh hard because of extremely ludicrous claims.

 

[Darren Addy]

He also seems to think that nothing can compare to Nikkor... ever.

 

[Tyler Burg]

Here is an example. It is the left side of a pic (cropped) @10mm f4 1/60 iso400. I had my camera set at full auto and the flash went off. Note how out of focus the lamp is. The right side is not nearly as bad.

Can't believe I'm the first one to say this, but this is about the worst example possible, a lamp?!? try doing some landscape shots and turn off your autofocus, I've never used autofocus on that lens, just turn to infinity in most cases and you'll end up with very sharp images. Also if you're going to be using "full auto" mode with the flash, you're wasting your money. You need to understand the manual controls to get "great" images with any lens. I'm just talking about the basics, aperture, shutter, iso...

I am not impressed with the two samples I got. I mean look at the examples in this thread. They are awesome! I really don't think the two I got would take such nice pictures.

LOL this is a joke...you have to see something cool to get great images man, I know it sounds crazy, but a lamp is not going to look as cool as a tornado when you look at it on the LCD.

Sure, its possible that you got a bad copy, but I think it's more likely that you have no idea what you're doing. You can't judge a lenses sharpness by shooting a random photo at a wall with nothing on it but a lamp at the floor. Like I said, try turning off the autofocus and using the manual dial on the lens. Also, try taking a picture of something you plan to use this lens for... if you want to use it for storms... try a sunset. A lot of the stuff on my website was shot with this lens, you can look at them if you want... link in the signature.

 

[Christopher E. Kincaid]

Can't believe I'm the first one to say this, but this is about the worst example possible, a lamp?!? try doing some landscape shots and turn off your autofocus, I've never used autofocus on that lens, just turn to infinity in most cases and you'll end up with very sharp images. Also if you're going to be using "full auto" mode with the flash, you're wasting your money. You need to understand the manual controls to get "great" images with any lens. I'm just talking about the basics, aperture, shutter, iso...




LOL this is a joke...you have to see something cool to get great images man, I know it sounds crazy, but a lamp is not going to look as cool as a tornado when you look at it on the LCD.

Sure, its possible that you got a bad copy, but I think it's more likely that you have no idea what you're doing. You can't judge a lenses sharpness by shooting a random photo at a wall with nothing on it but a lamp at the floor. Like I said, try turning off the autofocus and using the manual dial on the lens. Also, try taking a picture of something you plan to use this lens for... if you want to use it for storms... try a sunset. A lot of the stuff on my website was shot with this lens, you can look at them if you want... link in the signature.

Nice. LOL. Well smart guy if it hadn't been 10F outside the day I took these shots I very well may have taken a sunset picture. I used full auto not because I don't know how to use a camera, but because I was messing around. I didn't just take a picture of a lamp, it was of my living room and that lamp was on the left side of the shot. The left side seems to be a real problem with this lens model and with the first example I got. I have taken several pictures using several different settings and really NONE of the pictures are that good. Just because it is a lamp, doesn't mean the picture should be blurry. LOL. I'd post more examples but I asked for advice not insults and really do not want any more.

 

[Tyler Burg]

I used full auto not because I don't know how to use a camera, but because I was messing around.

Well, my advice is to not mess around when taking serious examples (and post them here), but rather be serious when testing

 

[Christopher E. Kincaid]

Well, my advice is to not mess around when taking serious examples (and post them here), but rather be serious when testing

I'll try to do a better job following forum rules Tyler.

 

[Joe beier]

I'll try to do a better job following forum rules Tyler.

LOL the cicenet and CII is strong in this one! Nah really just a pointer up your f-stop and it'll make the corners a wee bit more in focus but also going full wide fails up the focus usually in the corners though so you can't expect perfection =\

 

[Joshua Nall]

All of this talk about exchanging lenses... I know you can get a bad deal anywhere and even especially on ebay, but when I decided to buy I bought on ebay from an individual that said "this is a very sharp copy". I just trusted and that is what I got. Most folks are pretty honest when they depend on good feed back.. at least that has been my experience. I blew up one of the vertical lightning shots I posted earlier into a 12X16 print and really could not believe the detail of the city lights in the distance.. down in the bottom left corner. I'd say 99% of the time I'm shooting at infinity so focusing isn't much of an issue. In auto mode mine does hunt around at times and sometimes can't find focus when pointed at plain surfaces. I thought that was a fairly common problem with many lenses.

 

[Derek Weston]

All of this talk about exchanging lenses... I know you can get a bad deal anywhere and even especially on ebay, but when I decided to buy I bought on ebay from an individual that said "this is a very sharp copy". I just trusted and that is what I got. Most folks are pretty honest when they depend on good feed back.. at least that has been my experience. I blew up one of the vertical lightning shots I posted earlier into a 12X16 print and really could not believe the detail of the city lights in the distance.. down in the bottom left corner. I'd say 99% of the time I'm shooting at infinity so focusing isn't much of an issue. In auto mode mine does hunt around at times and sometimes can't find focus when pointed at plain surfaces. I thought that was a fairly common problem with many lenses.

Good pieces of advice. Buying from photo nerds with images to backup the lens is a great way to get a good product. (and one of the reasons lenses have such high resale value) Perhaps preferable, even...

I'm a fan of the fredmiranda.com community, though, you have to pay to use buy/sale/trade.

Lots of lenses will hunt in poor lighting conditions, especially if they're not too fast. That is fairly common and was perhaps our author's problem. (or not, he didn't say whether he tested for this)

 

[Jim Saueressig]

My test between two last year.

I purchased this lens last January, the first lens shown below as lens 2 was the first I got in, I requested a replacement as this had nothing sharp near the edges.

When it arrived I tested them side by side in both MF and AF modes with the same results.

The first lens I got showed better color representation while having serious contrast sharpness / focus issues on the edges. The second Listed as Lens 1 had less accurate color representation but was much sharper all around.