Reed Timmer unsafe acts

[Stan Rose]

The weather channel crew blew a stop sign and killed an innocent person. That's how it occurred.

Well, obviously the blown stop sign was a significant factor. But you have no idea how fast the "innocent person" was driving. He could have been totally distracted and went through a 4 way intersection speeding in the rain. According to your own statement above, then he would not be "innocent" In fact, under the "last clear chance rule" if he had the last chance to avoid the accident, *he* is at fault. I know cause when I was 17 I accidentally ran a red light and a lady hit me. When my insurance company sued, *I* won, because she hit me. I never paid a cent more in insurance cause she was held at fault. Same thing could be true here, since it appears from the damage the jeep hit in the front, not the side. It looked about simultaneous. Point being, you can't compare apples to oranges.

 

[Stan Rose]

Correct. Their failure to stop was never in dispute. Footage posted from their live stream, which ends just before the crash, shows them about to enter the intersection at a high rate of speed.

It's interesting that he didn't even slow down (it seems from the footage) when earlier in the same stream--he did significantly slow down (though not a complete stop) at the same sign. I wonder whether this was intentional or he was just so distracted he didnt see the sign. Hard to say really. See my response to Jason.

 

[Stan Rose]

I would like to ask you to take a step back and think if this had happened with someone else not associated with chasing. For example, a truck driver, or maybe some old rancher in an F-250. Would you be defending them in the same manner that you're defending Reed? I'm a professional driver with over a million miles in a CMV under my belt at this point, with no moving violations and no at-fault accidents. That's not counting the countless miles in military vehicles or the miles I've racked up in my personal vehicles over the years. I've been the first on the scene for countless accidents, and have been hit more than once by people falling asleep at the wheel (another issue I see becoming an issue within chasing), distracted driving, or ignoring traffic control signs/signals.

If we as a community are going to hold some of these people up on a pedestal, we need to be willing to call a spade a spade and not let them slide on the "little things" just because they're famous. Everyone needs to be held to the same standard.

I totally agree! My point is simply how we single them out. IMHO, calling out probably the best known chaser in our community and telling him to "grow up" on a public forum when he is not here to defend himself is counterproductive. I am not close friends with Reed, but I know him well enough to know he is not the villain some would like to make him out to be. So yeah, I would defend the truck driver the same way, if you could send a message to him and ask him what the heck he was doing broadcasting his traffic infractions live to an audience of impressionable people. Then maybe if he doesn't respond or responds like a jerk, then it would be ok to call him out. I think that is the right way to go about things if we wan't behavior to change.,

 

[Warren Faidley]

The "ultra-super" insanity behavior involved with storm chasing is still in its infancy. We have always had people doing crazy things. Even when I started back in the late 80's there were a few screwballs who drove like imbeciles.

Now we've entered a new era. Never before has a chase-related financial bonanza fused with something as risky as zero-metering. It's going to be an interesting year.

 

[Stan Rose]

The "ultra-super" insanity behavior involved with storm chasing is still in its infancy. We have always had people doing crazy things. Even when I started back in the late 80's there were a few screwballs who drove like imbeciles.

Now we've entered a new era. Never before has a chase-related financial bonanza fused with something as risky as zero-metering. It's going to be an interesting year.

The difference from the 80s of course is that now everyone has the technology that gives them a false sense of security and makes them feel invincible to a rapidly developing tornado. In the 80s, or even 90s when I started you had to actually pay attention to the sky.

 

[JamesCaruso]

maybe forming some sort of chasing certification body that emphasizes safe chasing might help?

Not going to happen. And you wouldn’t want it to.

This topic raises its head every few years, but it’s a non-starter.

 

[James K]

distracted driving

This one is deff an issue (and I'm not doing to call out any one chaser) but I see guys on their livestreams looking at maps/radar/etc (and showing them to the stream-camera) while driving, even at highway speed.
Everytime I see that, its a scary thing. Dangerous (and illeagal here in CO). I've once seen what happens when someone drives while looking at their phone...
Said incident involved a car driving through my neighborhood(and not at the 25mph limit either), driver looking at maps on their phone(obviously not paying attention to the curve in the road), they ended up going off the road, through my yard and t-boning the neighbors car in their driveway (totalling both vehicles). (and this was on a clear sunny day, no ice/snow/etc around)

I am not close friends with Reed, but I know him well enough to know he is not the villain some would like to make him out to be.

Never met Reed myself, but he seems like like s decent guy from some of his videos, plus I've seen posts from people who've met him while chasing saying he is.
I'm deff not calling him out, he's certainly not the only one out there doing dangerous things on the road..
I remember one stream I watched, back in December, the guy driving/chasing(don't remember who) would stop at red lights, then go through, & made some comment about treating red lights as if they were a 4-way stop! (sure there was no traffic around, but...)

The "ultra-super" insanity behavior involved with storm chasing is still in its infancy.

Thats a scary thought .eek. all 'fun & games' til someone gets themselves killed live on YouTube for the world to see.

when I started you had to actually pay attention to the sky.

Even though I'm old, or maybe just old-fashoned... that is something I plan to do, not just to some degree 'read the sky', but also I think seeing clouds in action is interesting.

 

[Mike Potts]

Not going to happen. And you wouldn’t want it to.

This topic raises its head every few years, but it’s a non-starter.

You are right that it is not something I welcome. However if we in the community don't police ourselves, then someone outside will eventually do it to us, and that is something I definitely don't want. All it will take is a few high profile incidents and we could face a real backlash. I'm not talking about anything mandatory, just perhaps a voluntary certifying body that chasers can point to and say they have been trained in safe/best practices. Like when builders meet certain standards that allow their buildings to be certified as energy efficient, ect.

 

[JamesCaruso]

You are right that it is not something I welcome. However if we in the community don't police ourselves, then someone outside will eventually do it to us, and that is something I definitely don't want. All it will take is a few high profile incidents and we could face a real backlash. I'm not talking about anything mandatory, just perhaps a voluntary certifying body that chasers can point to and say they have been trained in safe/best practices. Like when builders meet certain standards that allow their buildings to be certified as energy efficient, ect.

If you are interested in this topic, you can find multiple threads on it here going back decades. Chaser certification is a meaningless concept and it won’t work. People can’t get drivers licenses without being exposed to some safety training, but that doesn’t stop them from speeding or blowing stop signs. So chasers can get “certified” and what’s it going to change?

The physical act of chasing is nothing more than driving. Not sure what else we are going to teach people in that regard. Don’t speed? Don’t blow through stop signs? Don’t speed past people standing on the side of the road? People that need to be told these things, although they are already licensed drivers, are not people that are going to learn or change.

Meanwhile, how do you propose that chasing be controlled such that it is limited only to the “certified”? Again, “chasing” in this context is nothing more than *driving*. So what will the rules be? Only “certified chasers” can be near a storm? How do you define “near” - what radius? Where is the radius drawn from - from the edge of the meso, or from the edge of the forward flank downdraft? If I am not a certified chaser but I want to watch storm structure from 10 miles away, am I allowed to do that? If I am not chasing at all, but my route to work takes me within 5 miles of a supercell, can I still drive to work? Am I allowed to watch a severe warned storm but not a tornado warned storm? Where do you draw the “do not cross” line? And how does the line move as the meso moves? Should law enforcement keep shifting the perimeter as the storm moves? Does law enforcement know enough about storm structure and motion to adequately define the perimeter and control the road network around a storm? This is why I say it’s a non-starter, even IF it were a desirable concept, which I don’t think it is because of the constraints it would impose on chasers and non-chasers alike, all of whom are entitled to free passage on public roadways.

But don’t take my word for it, there’s plenty of ST content on the subject. Here are a few old threads to get you started:

Will chaser congestion and unncessary risk taking lead to anti-chase legislation?

It should though. Not that our consitution means much anymore. In the rush to for national security and to protect everyone our rights are being taken away Call it what you want but Russia, Germany and other countries have done the same and the result is a dictatorship. The media has no clue...

stormtrack.org

May I see your storm chaser license?

Hey all, So in regards to chasers doing foolish things such as blocking the roadway and making it difficult for emergency services to respond, newbie chasers doing all the wrong things, people going out chasing to capture a tornado on their iPhone to get on TWC but not knowing anything about...

stormtrack.org

County Officials Critical of Storm Chasers

It is, frankly, none of your business whether he/she is a professional chaser and how dare you ask for "proof." This is America! Your sole concern is whether a person is breaking the law. If so, they should be ticketed or arrested as any other person would be and as the facts of the situation...

stormtrack.org

 

[Travis Davis]

It's nice to see that his actions have changed over the years. </sarcasm>

On Mothers Day May 8, 2016 he ran a stop sign in his rental car down by Lawton and hit my truck and did significate damage. Everyone was alright, but I though he was an idiot. Limping home to Broken Arrow was awesome.

 

[Joey Ketcham]

Reed Timmer, he's a nightcrawler. He's in it for the money, not the science.

Joking aside, the Reed Timmer discussion has been beaten to death. Nothing will change with him. He has been doing what he does for years, eventually it'll catch up to him when his antics leads to him and his team being killed. All we can do is sit aside and watch the shitshow.

 

[Warren Faidley]

It's nice to see that his actions have changed over the years. </sarcasm>

On Mothers Day May 8, 2016 he ran a stop sign in his rental car down by Lawton and hit my truck and did significate damage. Everyone was alright, but I though he was an idiot. Limping home to Broken Arrow was awesome.

Who are you referring to that ran a stop sign and hit your truck?

 

[Mike Potts]

If you are interested in this topic, you can find multiple threads on it here going back decades. Chaser certification is a meaningless concept and it won’t work. People can’t get drivers licenses without being exposed to some safety training, but that doesn’t stop them from speeding or blowing stop signs. So chasers can get “certified” and what’s it going to change?

The physical act of chasing is nothing more than driving. Not sure what else we are going to teach people in that regard. Don’t speed? Don’t blow through stop signs? Don’t speed past people standing on the side of the road? People that need to be told these things, although they are already licensed drivers, are not people that are going to learn or change.

Meanwhile, how do you propose that chasing be controlled such that it is limited only to the “certified”? Again, “chasing” in this context is nothing more than *driving*. So what will the rules be? Only “certified chasers” can be near a storm? How do you define “near” - what radius? Where is the radius drawn from - from the edge of the meso, or from the edge of the forward flank downdraft? If I am not a certified chaser but I want to watch storm structure from 10 miles away, am I allowed to do that? If I am not chasing at all, but my route to work takes me within 5 miles of a supercell, can I still drive to work? Am I allowed to watch a severe warned storm but not a tornado warned storm? Where do you draw the “do not cross” line? And how does the line move as the meso moves? Should law enforcement keep shifting the perimeter as the storm moves? Does law enforcement know enough about storm structure and motion to adequately define the perimeter and control the road network around a storm? This is why I say it’s a non-starter, even IF it were a desirable concept, which I don’t think it is because of the constraints it would impose on chasers and non-chasers alike, all of whom are entitled to free passage on public roadways.

But don’t take my word for it, there’s plenty of ST content on the subject. Here are a few old threads to get you started:

Will chaser congestion and unncessary risk taking lead to anti-chase legislation?

It should though. Not that our consitution means much anymore. In the rush to for national security and to protect everyone our rights are being taken away Call it what you want but Russia, Germany and other countries have done the same and the result is a dictatorship. The media has no clue...

stormtrack.org

May I see your storm chaser license?

Hey all, So in regards to chasers doing foolish things such as blocking the roadway and making it difficult for emergency services to respond, newbie chasers doing all the wrong things, people going out chasing to capture a tornado on their iPhone to get on TWC but not knowing anything about...

stormtrack.org

County Officials Critical of Storm Chasers

It is, frankly, none of your business whether he/she is a professional chaser and how dare you ask for "proof." This is America! Your sole concern is whether a person is breaking the law. If so, they should be ticketed or arrested as any other person would be and as the facts of the situation...

stormtrack.org

I 100% realize that you can't control whether or not someone chases, nor would I want to and free passage of the roads is a right, we agree on that point. I'm only saying that we should consider having a voluntary program that could possibly encourage safer behavior. Nobody would have to take the course, but they could point to it and say, "I know what the best practices are, and I have had exposure to those." Sorry if that isn't coming across clearly. My example of an additional certification in building standards might not be the best.
As far as whether or not this would change any behavior, then I would say that it might. If you have an increased standard in a field, then generally speaking people gravitate to wanting to achieve that standard. I concede that reminding people to drive safe may not work for all of them, but I gotta believe that preventing a tragic accident is worth the effort of trying. Especially since this would only be a voluntary program, with zero impact on the freedom to chase.

Thanks for the thread links, I will check them out.

 

[Warren Faidley]

You are not going to prevent another tragedy. I do believe it's honorable that some chasers have tried to call out and circumvent bad behavior. Chuck Doswell tried very hard while he was still active in the chase community. I tired for several years by calling out specific individuals when bad / false behavior cast a negative light on chasing, but gave up after social media flamed me and fanboys made death threats against me. I'm expecting more very soon, since this thread has spilled over into social media.

This toxic behavior extends way beyond dangerous traffic violations. For example, chasers renting vehicles so they can drive through Godzilla hail live on YouTube. Recently, chasers (not Reed) were streaming live as they walked through the tornado debris filming victims.

Eventually, I believe YouTube will pull the plug on live streams featuring bad or illegal behavior. That will stop a lot of this instantly.

 

[Jason N]

Pandora - I'll say what I believe, the rest is up for debate. who's culpable for the behavior? and who is responsible to damage from it.

I'd take a lawsuit straight to discovery and the WX channel for promoting and supporting it. They make terrible assumptions about getting out information to people in this 24/7 Live format. Their programming itself dictates that viewership / ratings drive everything. For me this is part and parcel a central issue, and it takes strong people willing to give up big bucks to say, nope I am not going to be a part of that, but even if someone did, they would just grab somebody that would be happy to say yes to it.

ratings drive behaviors - people seek limelight: Want ratings to go up?? ask for more raw and wild scenery!. The people take it in like gospel, a drug, or this idea that, well this is what the "professionals" do, so I need to be THAT way, so I can get channel likes, monetary gains etc. So how does that fit into the society as a whole when, cops don't stop bad driving actions cause its associated with "press", or getting information out the people to help save lives is more important than individual responsibility in times of danger.

So somewhere through it all, it manifested to, the closer I get, the faster I get there, the more exciting it is, AND I might make some cash and get likes, which literally has turned many younger thrill seekers -- I'm not even sure it's fair to call many of them "chasers" at all, into wreckless, high strung, aggressive A-holes, with little regard to anything except : I am the king of this road, get out of the way or else. I have seen a LOT of that behavior increasing rapidly since 2019.

the problem with my statement is that in part, we need good reliable information, that's timely and accurate with chasers on the ground; also, since you can't legislate stupidity entirely away in a free society, and there are laws that cover all of this, so , its up to police to deal with it, but in tornadic situation, are they stopping people running stop signs, most likely no. so, leave it up to the individuals, and we are probably going to end up right back here in this thread talking about it.

I suspect like many popular things, it might die off on its own somewhat in terms of popularity, but since the Wx channel and other outlets propel climate change so hard to "change your behavior", I suspect Tornado chase popularity won't slow down anytime soon, accidents will probably go up as will the Road Rage.

My personal and partial solution to the problem is education and a altering of "why are you doing this" . Educate chasers to stop trying to catch every single storm if its going to make you unsafe to getting there. You know how many times I was 60miles from a storm and WANTED to Race down to catch it? , teach chasers to prepare more in advance, to slow down the get-there-itis!, there is always tomorrow or the next time. Be willing to give it up!, you can't be everywhere all at once.

How do you fix the "why are you here" - youTube, TV/Cable Channels should take away ALL monetary gain from videos. sure, its harsh, but if your goal is to ACTUALLY help people, no one gets paid for doing a community service. I bet you would lose 50-70% of this crap overnight.

 

[Warren Faidley]

One thing that would help immensely is for chasers who make complaints about chasing behavior to copy /post the actual infringements. Not links, as they can be sanitized, as some chasers have done. This was recently done on social media after a chaser nearly caused a very serious accident. Posting bad behavior has the effect of a: exposing the offending person(s), b: alerting those who support / sponsor bad behavior.

 

[Stan Rose]

There are parallels in other fields that suggest ways to improve chaser behavior. For example, I am a full time landscape photographer and an analagous debate within that community has been how many photographers, inspired by their favorite social media photos/photographers, have trampled sensitive wilderness areas, defaced or destroyed sites, invited others to join in the desecration, etc. (similarly with wildlife photographers who harass or bait wildlife) In response, a friend of mine created the "Nature First" movement, which attempts to educate photographers and get them on board with the idea of putting the protection of natural areas ahead of making a buck or getting social media attention. You have to commit to these ideals to belong to the group. Of course, there is no real way to police things or punish bad behavior, but at least you are educating, and more importantly, trying to instill a sense of group pride in the principles behind the movement. I think a similar thing could be done with storm chaseing if someone was committed to form it, a code of ethics and safe, respectful behavior.

 

[Warren Faidley]

Reed is aware of this thread. He noted on social media yesterday that I was "posting flase information" or something like that. If the many accusations (beyond me) and archived video clips over the years are "false information", he can always join ST, man-up and defend himself, but he won't.

He relies on his massive fan base to protect him.

 

[Jason N]

There is a recent episode where Reed is chasing a cell, and there was a vehicle being way MORE wreckless while trying to intercept, and almost wrecked into his car, and though some serious luck, this dummy pulled an avoidance maneuver off his right side and into the grass, and by a LOT of luck, got back on the road, (that other driver was a complete and utter moron with the -- I have a Subaru, I chase for money, so I must now by extension, be Ken Block!). You could hear it in Reeds voice being stunned by it. So, I doubt he is unaware that this is happening, He's fully aware of it, but maybe he assumes, hey that's your life and choices. However, if he gets wrecked into one day and someone dies or gets mangled to the point where, this is life changing for him, his finances, or someone else's, it's a too late reality check. When you carry a heavier load of internet popularity, you are unwittingly sometimes carrying the torch of "how I act, influences others to some degree". I guess all you can hope for is that he starts to call out the bad behaviors himself. He knows it and see's it, and it's not some kind of game, people can and will die because of it if they can't simmer down the crappy behaviors and that's not being dramatic, it's just factual. I'm not hating on him, I just think he can do better at calling it out and maybe dedicate an episode with video cutouts surrounding idiot behaviors that need to change.

 

[Jamie H]

Reed made his views clear in an interview for the Storm Chasing Anthology*, where he said he feels he is in control at all times, that no one should copy him, and it's not up to other people to worry about him. I understand that argument and to be honest there isn't going to be any amount of unhappy internet posts about him that'll change how he does things. You can hope that individuals will step up as leaders, but he's doing his own business and will act as he sees fit. Some people will gravitate towards his style, others towards Skip's (as an example).

*Quite a good watch if you haven't seen it:

 

[Warren Faidley]

The problem is that only worrying about yourself is an idiotic, egomaniac, selfish attitude on public roads. This is like a drunk telling people, "I have a few drinks before I drive. I'm very careful -- I'm a professional drinker, but please don't do what I do even if you see me doing it on social media."

No chaser is above the law. People watch live storm chasing and see idiots running stop signs, speeding on wet roads, driving distracted and committing other moving violations and they think it's the way it's done and it's justified. Just because you are a social media star and need to beat everyone else to zero-meter is no excuse.

BTW, I completely refused participating in the "Storm Chasing Anthology" because I felt the producer refused to call out the fakery and bad behavior in chasing -- which is more relevant than ever.

 

[Warren Faidley]

In fairness to Reed, I downloaded the entire 5 hour broadcast in high quality resolution and did a frame by frame forensic analysis. I wanted to set the record straight, since he recently posted on social media that I was posting false information here on ST.

From the beginning to around 4:09:10, I counted 6 events where he did not come to a full stop at stop signs. 3:48:24, 3:52:00, 3:57:03, 4:05:04, 4:08:45 and 4:09:00. Some were more egregious than others -- determine the risk factors for yourself. There may be more but I did not check after 4:09:00. Also, at around 4:08:00, one could argue that he is driving through a small town, littered with debris on the road, at an unsafe speed. I can understand missing a single stop sign (which is dangerous enough), or maybe slowing down to a crawl at a deserted intersection with 100 percent visibility, but this appears to be a driving style habit. Again, these are my opinions and I encourage the reader to determine the scope or legality of such acts on their own and not take my word alone.

I have nothing personal against Reed. I've only heard good things about him personally and I've always admired his educational accomplishments, along with his devotion to storm chasing and charity work. His assistance at disasters is noted. What I don't appreciate is his irritation with anyone (including me) when he does things that reflect bad on the chase community or endangers others -- then denies it and/or releases his fanboy piranhas on people, sometimes passively, as he recently did to me. He seems to be under the impression that he is somehow "special" and deserves to be treated different than the rest of us, including the enforcement of traffic laws.

I suppose I could release a "greatest hits" of his bad behavior to defend myself, but my intent is not to hurt or punish him, just humble him somewhat and maybe save his life and possibly others.

 

[Andy Wehrle]

Kind of interesting to hear it straight from @Warren Faidley whom I grew up thinking of as the face of commercial/professional chasing...granted it's a much different landscape being the king of storm stock photography in the '90s vs. the "king" of livestreaming insanity now.

I don't remember I've posted it anywhere before or just thought it, but in my opinion W.T. is now the social-media-addled husk of a man who might once have been a credible meteorologist. Sad, really.

 

[Jason Boggs]

In fairness to Reed, I downloaded the entire 5 hour broadcast in high quality resolution and did a frame by frame forensic analysis. I wanted to set the record straight, since he recently posted on social media that I was posting false information here on ST.

From the beginning to around 4:09:10, I counted 6 events where he did not come to a full stop at stop signs. 3:48:24, 3:52:00, 3:57:03, 4:05:04, 4:08:45 and 4:09:00. Some were more egregious than others -- determine the risk factors for yourself. There may be more but I did not check after 4:09:00. Also, at around 4:08:00, one could argue that he is driving through a small town, littered with debris on the road, at an unsafe speed. I can understand missing a single stop sign (which is dangerous enough), or maybe slowing down to a crawl at a deserted intersection with 100 percent visibility, but this appears to be a driving style habit. Again, these are my opinions and I encourage the reader to determine the scope or legality of such acts on their own and not take my word alone.

I have nothing personal against Reed. I've only heard good things about him personally and I've always admired his educational accomplishments, along with his devotion to storm chasing and charity work. His assistance at disasters is noted. What I don't appreciate is his irritation with anyone (including me) when he does things that reflect bad on the chase community or endangers others -- then denies it and/or releases his fanboy piranhas on people, sometimes passively, as he recently did to me. He seems to be under the impression that he is somehow "special" and deserves to be treated different than the rest of us, including the enforcement of traffic laws.

I suppose I could release a "greatest hits" of his bad behavior to defend myself, but my intent is not to hurt or punish him, just humble him somewhat and maybe save his life and possibly others.

I agree. I have nothing against Reed either and honestly I pat him on the back for his education accomplishments and his storm chasing motivation. However, just because he's/was a tv star with Dr. in front of his name doesn't make him immune to traffic laws. I really hope he never has an incident out there.

 

[Warren Faidley]

I agree. I have nothing against Reed either and honestly I pat him on the back for his education accomplishments and his storm chasing motivation. However, just because he's/was a tv star with Dr. in front of his name doesn't make him immune to traffic laws. I really hope he never has an incident out there.

And thanks for having the guts to start this thread. Most chasers are afraid to even mention his name, like it's "Voldemort."