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NWS facing budget cuts

Just saying, with a diminished NWS capability, it could create an intentional vacuum that would have to be filled by the private sector. Just an idea, not really based on reality. :)
 
Mike Smith said:
Huh?

Where do you get the idea AccuWeather/WeatherData wants the NWS budget cut?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't normal profit motive drive AccuWeather to want this? I think if you asked most businesses if they'd prefer for their competition to have less funds to compete with, they'd say yes. NWS is a competing entity and AccuWeather has been treating it as so for some time. Don't make me dig out the ol' hurricane product they posted a few years back to their website that claimed that NWS's targeting probability predictions were useless and that AccuWeather's were much more accurate.
 
Ryan McGinnis said:
Wouldn't normal profit motive drive AccuWeather to want this? I think if you asked most businesses if they'd prefer for their competition to have less funds to compete with, they'd say yes. NWS is a competing entity and AccuWeather has been treating it as so for some time. Don't make me dig out the ol' hurricane product they posted a few years back to their website that claimed that NWS's targeting probability predictions were useless and that AccuWeather's were much more accurate.
Click to expand...

The problem is the NWS is the primary provider of a lot of the weather information that the private sector uses. If the NWS is forced to cut these programs, then the private sector will be affected as well.

Also, bandwidth in the NWS is at a premium. If the budget gets cut, then the NWS won't be able to afford the bandwidth to disseminate the products that they still keep. This means that model runs, level 2 radar data, etc won't make it to the private sector. Thus, private sector companies would take a huge hit in order to survive because they'll have to invest in their own infrastructure.

NWS Budget Cuts of the magnitude would decimate the weather industry almost completely - both private and public.
 
Ryan McGinnis said:
Wouldn't normal profit motive drive AccuWeather to want this? I think if you asked most businesses if they'd prefer for their competition to have less funds to compete with, they'd say yes. NWS is a competing entity and AccuWeather has been treating it as so for some time. Don't make me dig out the ol' hurricane product they posted a few years back to their website that claimed that NWS's targeting probability predictions were useless and that AccuWeather's were much more accurate.
Click to expand...

AccuWeather's position has always been that the NWS should provide meteorological infrastructure and provide high quality storm warnings for the public-at-large. Yes, there have been times in the past when AccuWeather has advocated turning over non-storm related forecasting ("mostly sunny tomorrow, light winds, high 67°") over to the private sector.

And, yes, we have competitors and we market our products aggressively.

That said, AccuWeather (and WeatherData, before we were part of AccuWeather) has never advocated a cut in the NWS's budget. We fully recognize the crucial role of the NWS. I believe our relations with the NWS are excellent.

I like to use Greensburg as an example. Several of the storm spotters were using our Storm Hawks to send instantaneous real-time reports of the tornado. We know the NWS saw at least some of those reports (a NWS meteorologist told me). Our technology provided data to the NWS and to our TV client and its audience.

WeatherData warned the Union Pacific which kept its trains out of the Greensburg area.

The NWS DDC issued an excellent and timely warning for the public.

Together, we saved 200+ lives. There is much more that unifies us than divides us.

Here is the thread about my talk in Greensburg on this subject a week from tonight: http://stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?p=243420#post243420

Please come. I believe you'll be very pleased at the way I discuss how we all work together to save lives.

Mike
 
rdale said:
This proposal has nothing to do with DP & PA. Are you sure they offered it up? I thought this came from the border state senators?
Click to expand...

Sometimes you have to look down the road and judge what you will give now
in order to save something for later.

I know they are doing their best to keep the current budget issues from
delaying the development and installation of the DP and down the road the
PA systems. I trust my source.... and the math.

Tim
 
Speaking as a meteorologist that has worked for a couple private weather companies (that I will not name)..... cutting the NWS budget would in no way be even remotely beneficial to the private weather industry. Where I work, we are increasingly doing more business with the NWS.... and want them to do as well as possible. Otherwise, I'll be working at McDonald's again like when I was a teenager. Simple as that.

....which brings me up to point #2. With the effects of the financial crisis merging with what I call the "met industry job crisis" ..... those in school for weather, or those wanting to go to school for weather, or those getting a PhD in weather thinking they will get a job..... better get your head out of your butt and start thinking about other career options. Ever since I started college, I always heard that most NWS mets were "just about to retire and there will be a TON of openings in just a few years!". Guess what, that has not come to pass and now won't since a lot of guys with 30 years in just lost 30-40% of their retirement and will now want to keep working to save up a bit more. In private meteorology, it is even worse since we actually have to make money each and every year to pay salaries, financing, capital expenses, yadda yadda. End result? I have seen hiring come to a halt around summer 2008 and layoffs hit many at other companies in private weather. I would guess most private wx companies won't hire in any meaningful way for years....... I really feel bad for those graduating right now because the odds are stacked completely against them. Even if you are the best met in your graduating class.... it doesn't do any good if there are no job openings! Why am I so pessimistic? Because I want the message to get out.... people that go into this field are almost universally optimistic and stubborn as a mule AND their college professors aren't in the business of telling them they are throwing themselves down a figurative well. They think if they just hold out long enough something will drop in their lap. Meanwhile, they make themselves miserable, work for horrendous wages that would make an assistant manager of a Jiffy Lube laugh with glee, and end up moving their whole family to frozen hellholes in the Arctic for their "career". Don't do it! There are many great job opportunities out there, even if you have a degree in meteorology...... and will probably work better for you in the long term. Hint: the energy (wind, solar, nuclear, geothermal) industry will be the biggest source of jobs in the 21st century.... especially in the U.S., so get cracking!

DISCLAIMER: I work in weather, love the job, and don't plan on leaving the field for a long time. However, I am going back to school to diversify my skill set for future opportunities in weather, energy, and engineering. Those planning to work in weather, or stay working in weather....... better expect to wear multiple skill hats (forecaster, programmer, sales, PR, etc.).

Oh yes, almost forgot........ NWS budget cuts would be bad for EVERYONE in the industry. End of story.
 
Since Matthew mention about jobs in meteorology, here is a link
that I posted last year, an article that appeared in the BAMS.


ARE WE GRADUATING TOO MANY ATMOSPHERIC SCIENTISTS? AN UPDATE

John A. Knox: University of Georgia

http://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/130540.pdf

"CONCLUDING REMARKS:
Based on the results of this article, if current
trends in undergraduate meteorology enrollment
and employment in the United States continue,
there will be far more degreed meteorologists than
jobs in meteorology during the next decade."

Mike
 
rdale said:
If your source told you that the NWS approached the Senator and asked her to take money out of their budget and put it into the alien act - your source was wrong. Regardless of the long-term plans.
Click to expand...

That is not what I said nor my source.



Tim
 
According to OpenCongress, the amendment passed.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2847/actions_votes

It's weird though considering the text says this:

"An amendment numbered 19 printed in the congressional Record to increase appropriations for National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration operations, research, and facilities by $500,000 and decrease appropriations for the Department of Commerce salaries and expenses by $500,000."

This is the total site though. I'm too busy to completely figure this stuff out right now, but here's the link if others want to figure it all out:

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2847/show
 
GREAT NEWS! Although the 1million has been approved to be allocated to the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program it wont be coming at the expense of NOAA's budget and it looks like 500k has been reallocated to help fund NOAA's operations from its parent, the Department of Commerce.

:D

H.R.2847 - Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies Appropriations Act, 2010

H.Amdt213
Summary of Amendment:
An amendment numbered 19 printed in the congressional Record to increase appropriations for National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration operations, research, and facilities by $500,000 and decrease appropriations for the Department of Commerce salaries and expenses by $500,000.
Vote result:PASS
Source: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2847/amendments?page=1

H.Amdt239
Summary of Amendment:
An amendment numbered 86 printed in the Congressional Record to prohibit the use of funds to be used for the Innovative Science Learning Center of Science South, Florence, South Carolina, and decrease the appropriations for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration cross agency support by $500,000.
Vote results: FAIL
Source: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2847/amendments?page=3

H.Amdt240
Summary of Amendment:
An amendment numbered 85 printed in the Congressional Record to prohibit the use for the Drew University Environmental Science Initiative of Drew University, Madison, New Jersey, and decrease the appropriations for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration cross agency support by $1 million.
Vote results: FAIL
Source: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2847/amendments?page=3

S.Amdt2667
Summary of Amendment:
To reduce waste and abuse at the Department of Commerce.
Status: Amendment has only been offered and a vote has yet to be considered.
Source: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h2847/amendments?page=8




​
 
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