New Canon 50D to be released in October

[Dick McGowan]

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0808/08082605canoneos50d.asp

Yawn...when's the new 5D II (full frame) coming?

 

[Greg Campbell]

Is anyone else just a wee bit tired of the megapixel wars? 15MP on an APS-C sensor is pushing it, no?


Hey, Canon, how about adding some features that might actually prove, you know, useful?

How about publishing a standardized a dynamic range spec?

How about the ability to automatically generate a library of dark frame images, indexed by temperature and time? (The two key variables that determine noise.) These could be stored and then auto-subtracted from long exposures without requiring the acquisition of a fresh dark frame for each image. Intermediate temps could be interpolated with plenty of practical accuracy.

Better still, just generate performance coefficients for each pixel, modeling gain, bias, linearity, etc. vs. temperature. The camera can then accurately predict the noise each element will produce.

What's with the 'expansion' ISO gimmick? What compromises do you make to exceed the standard 3200?

What if Canon/Nikon/whoever offered a 10~15mp, full frame sensor? One with inherently higher ISO and inherently lower noise? I bet a lot of folks would be willing to pay another $100 for the larger silicon, even if the raw pixed count was unimproved.

Canon's asnwer:
"Naw.... none of that stuff will sell! The masses have been conditioned to demand MP. Like Pavlov's pooch, the pixel peeper crowd will be positively twitching; eager to to blow their hard earned $ for the 'latest and greatest.' Mwahahahaha!"

 

[Darren Addy]

"Detailed preview" is now up. It appears that the 50d offers quite a bit more than just increased megapixels. A number of the features seem to leverage the brand's lenses to provide even more advantages to shooting with Canon lenses. ("Vignetting correction?") The individual (by lens) autofocus adjustment is a very interesting development. Also counter-intuitive is the way that Canon is able to put more megapixels on the chip (which normally would increase the noise problem) but at the same time be able to offer higher ISOs. (It remains to be seen how much they have succeeded, but Canon if they have they retake a big lead in the APS-C arena and this points to the next generation 5D probably upping the bar considerably in the FF market.) I imagine Canon is announcing this now so that they can announce the full frame camera at Photokina (and make a grab for the biggest headlines at that event). The announcement of the Digic 4 processor line is probably every bit as significant as the hardware upgrades on the camera.

If nothing else, this is good news for the used 40d market.

For those interested in the challenges (and compromises) of putting more megapixels on the same size sensor, this interview with the engineers of the Pentax K10D is enlightening. It is nearly two years old, but I'm sure the same principles are happening with every company. It is the old cat 'n mouse game between the hardware engineers and developing the software to take advantage of it (and mitigate the negatives).

I'm amused to see it portrayed with a 50mm f/1.4 lens.

 

[Chris Hayes]

Cool. This means the 40D will be a lot cheaper when I go to buy it! LOL

 

[James Langford]

I always thought that was kind of funny too. It is, though, the standard lens that he uses for all of his Canon reviews. It looks real funny on the full frame cameras.

I am quite impressed by the spec sheet! Many of those things I would find very helpful, if they do pan out as they are advertised. I love the lens correction options, as that has been an issue with many cameras either slightly backfocussing or frontfocussing. Definately something I am going to keep my eye on as a possible upgrade from my 30D.

James

 

[Rob Wadsworth]

I have the XTi, and if I were to get a 50D, it would be a candidate beccause of the on-chip lens correction and vignetteing correction AND that I can use my lenses that I already have. The 10-22mm is hard to beat - even by the 16-35mm f/2.8L.

Like Greg said - not because of this Pavlovian Pixel War...

 

[Gene Moore]

The 50D does not follow the old progression of upgraded Rebel models with the same pixel size....30d....40d etc. A jump from 10-15 mp is worth having for those with an XTi looking to upgrade. Internet images won't look any different, but it will yield bigger cleaner enlargements.

I have yet to see proof that spending an extra $3000 - $5000 on a Canon full frame body yields a better tornado picture. If anyone can do that I'll sure listen. Not that long ago we could spend $5000 on a Canon 8 mp camera....Mark II or something like that. What if the 50D is actually a better camera than the old 5D, then what? I've used the high end cameras and I don't see a drastic difference. For now (while the mega pixel race continues) I'll drop more money on the lenses than the bodies, thinking it's dinero better spent.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

I have yet to see proof that spending an extra $3000 - $5000 on a Canon full frame body yields a better tornado picture. If anyone can do that I'll sure listen. Not that long ago we could spend $5000 on a Canon 8 mp camera....Mark II or something like that. What if the 50D is actually a better camera than the old 5D, then what? I've used the high end cameras and I don't see a drastic difference. For now (while the mega pixel race continues) I'll drop more money on the lenses than the bodies, thinking it's dinero better spent.

The only real big difference I'd see that would be wort it is less noise....given cameras created around a similar time. Like yeah, the 5d is so old now it may not be any better with noise, thanks to the larger sensor, when compared against new technology and a crop sensor. Something tells me it will still be better with noise than this 50d. I'd expect a nice difference with the new 5d whenever it comes out. I like to shoot night things, and for that, I could see the difference being worth it. Otherwise, yeah, I don't see much worth in a bigger frame size. Then again if the new 5d comes with many more pixels, that would likely be the only difference...since the pixel to size ratio would then be similar. Seeing example images would be nice between the 50d and 5d(II or whatever they'll call it).

 

[scott r currens]

What is the expected price point of the 50D?

If it is around $1500 or less I may consider upgrading from my XT. Although it is more important that I upgrade the photographer than it is the camera. I really need to spend more time in the offseason learning how to use the camea effectively.

 

[Darren Addy]

The camera will be available in October as a body only configuration for $1,399 and with a lens for $1,599.

 

[Gene Moore]

What is the expected price point of the 50D?

Here it is, from the source $1400:
http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20080826_eos50d.html

As for the megapix discussion, good article for those that haven't seen it. Of course this is a high end Canon against the bottom end point and shoot models.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/8mp-alternatives.shtml

 

[Gene Moore]

Then again if the new 5d comes with many more pixels, that would likely be the only difference...since the pixel to size ratio would then be similar. Seeing example images would be nice between the 50d and 5d(II or whatever they'll call it).

I figured the new 5D II or 5C etc would be about 16 MP. Now with crop frame model nearing that range the new full frame 5D will likely be much higher. Canon's carrot on a stick marketing continues.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Too bad the release date says "October" right now on this thing. It's tempting me, but damn it, I'd need a new cam before then. At least that is the date on BH. Seems the XSi was availabe on other sites before BH, of course one had to buy the lens. This one has me interested though. Any 5dII will probably be over $3,000? Close to that I'd assume. Things I read about that one listed similar pixel count as this 50d. Hmm. I'm in the same boat as Scott, still using the XT. An XT with a couple very very stuck dust particles. I don't even want to stop down to f8 at the moment because of those. They sure as hell didn't come off with about 30 wet swipes. The new technology to prevent that stuff, or remove it has me interested.

 

[Gene Moore]

Too bad the release date says "October" right now on this thing. It's tempting me, but damn it, I'd need a new cam before then. At least that is the date on BH. Seems the XSi was available on other sites before BH, of course one had to buy the lens. This one has me interested though. Any 5dII will probably be over $3,000? Close to that I'd assume. Things I read about that one listed similar pixel count as this 50d. Hmm. I'm in the same boat as Scott, still using the XT. An XT with a couple very very stuck dust particles. I don't even want to stop down to f8 at the moment because of those. They sure as hell didn't come off with about 30 wet swipes. The new technology to prevent that stuff, or remove it has me interested.

You're not alone in the dust department, my XTi is two years old now and had too much dust inside. Canon's shake it off solution only works to a point, sooner than later the cavity that holds the mirror/sensor gets full of assorted things that float in the air. The dust didn't show up on mine except the out of focus parts of the image, especially a dull unblue sky. Sooo, I got in there with a blower and an alcohol swab and eliminated most of it. Unfortunately, the more we change lenses the more dirt gets inside, especially on a windy chase. Since I tend to use primes quite a bit (50mm and 85mm) that increases the time the camera is open.

As for the sensor, I've been reading everything I can find on its redesign. It's been confirmed the XSi has more noise than the XTi, but not much. Seems this camera has less noise than the XTi, but the top camera test sites haven't weighed in. A publisher requested the rights to purchase a shot from my Red Rock set, 1991 film days. When I rescanned the slide to their specifications (7 in @ 300 dpi) I was shocked at the amount of grain in the image. The original was shot using professional Kodak film with a Canon F-1 and 50mm lens. A good setup for the time, yet the image was full of grain/noise compared to the recent tornado images taken with my XTi at 200 ISO. The exercise reminded me how far we've come since film days.

Recent shot released by Canon - 50D at 1600 ISO:
http://ericreagan.smugmug.com/photos/357912992_MsF3B-O.jpg
Link will probably be time sensitive.

In reading about the 50D I see Canon has incorporated the focus adjustment software found in their high end Mark xxx cameras. Each lens can be adjusted differently. Perhaps this will help with the infinity (front and back focus) issues Canon has with some lenses.

I'm betting it will be a good camera body. For many such an investment may further trap them in a small sensor camera, but with no Canon 5D replacement in sight, what to do?

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Yeah, a lot of example images would be nice. That 1600 ISO image seems awfully good. The contrasty and detail rich scene might make it a little misleading. It's so good I think it has to be misleading. I mean, it'd be nice if he had a supercell to shoot! I think the true test for us would be along the front fender, lighter colored area of that car. Still looks good there for 1600 ISO, but not the scary good the rest of the image looks. Because it of course really depends on the scene. I can get just as clean looking images with my XT at 1600 ISO with regular day light detail rich scenes. Looking at the that front bumper area, I can't tell if mine would be any better or not. Seem like they'd be similar with noise, which would be quite amazing since they've stuffed on about twice the pixels as my XT.

My choice all depends on a specific sale anyway, lol. Sort of funny it comes down to it, but it does. Don't even know if I have the sale, if not maybe no upgrade. If it comes out moderately priced, then the XSi. If it is better than that, quite possibly will get the 50d. Waiting into October is going to be tough either way, since I want to head up to Yellowstone area before they close beartooth pass. Arrrgh all around. If I was at all wise, I'd just settle on the XSi for less than half the price. I believe they used the same sort of sensor improvements the XSi had, right? But that processor I think is different.