‘More will die': The ethics of up-close tornado chasing

I really don't see many deaths happening much at all. El Reno was an exceptionally large and erratic twister, but it was actually surprising there was as few deaths as there were. It moved South, changed directions and increased in size very quickly. Still, many chasers like Dan were able to escape a situation that extended way beyond the norm. There will probably be an incident here or there that leads to a death, but there won't be a high chaser death total unless there is a traffic jam which piles up the chasers, possibly caused by law enforcement blocking a road or rush hour. Most people have a life preservation instinct that stops them from getting rolled up in a tornado


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Dan Robinson said:
So many problems with the responses here.

First, to get close to tornadoes requires a very high level of skill and forecasting knowledge. Novices simply aren't going to get themselves into these situations with any regularity. I can't even do it more than once or twice every season.

Second, not all tornadoes are the same. There is a world of difference between an El Reno and a Wynnewood. Getting close to one is different than the other. I wouldn't even call Wynnewood an "extreme chasing" example. Dick and Darin were a few hundred yards from a very small (but violent) tornado that was moving AWAY from them. There wasn't anything extreme about that in terms of any danger they were in personally.

I'm really sick of all of the hyperbole, especially from those in the chase community that should know better. And that includes many veterans who IMO are abusing their position in the community to perpetuate this intellectually dishonest tripe, for what reason I can't even fathom. Is it to assert some type of self importance or relevance? I have no idea. It only gives these media trolls something to feed on to further malign me and people like me, and for that I'm pretty incensed.

If you want to prove how dangerous chasing is, show video. Show statistics. Opinions don't matter any more. We're in the age of "logic and reason", so stop grandstanding these silly opinions that are no better than Lynn Walker's works.
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Well, I respectfully disagree. I have zero problem with you getting as close as you like--that's your personal decision. But I would hope you at least think of the example you set and don't be 'intellectually dishonest' about it. The videos posted in the article are a good example. You think they weren't doing anything dangerous. If you really believe that, good luck is all I can say--hope I don't read about you some day. Although I think the people in the video driving under the downed power lines were probably at greater risk than ones who shot the video. I've had a close experience with a satellite tornado, and all I can say is you may think you can outsmart your surroundings, but nature will prove you a fool. And debris can be carried farther than you might want to believe. Furthermore, the idea that getting close to tornadoes is only for the elite, well, I don't believe that. A couple years ago I watched about four car loads of total locals and/or complete novices tailgate the Dominator so they could get as close as possible to a violent tornado. I guess you can say this doesn't happen "regularly", but it is going to happen more frequently. If you want stats, great..my point is that maybe we should try not to be so complacent, so that a really big 'stat' doesn't happen in the near future.
 
Todd Lemery said:
I really don't see many deaths happening much at all. El Reno was an exceptionally large and erratic twister, but it was actually surprising there was as few deaths as there were. It moved South, changed directions and increased in size very quickly. Still, many chasers like Dan were able to escape a situation that extended way beyond the norm. There will probably be an incident here or there that leads to a death, but there won't be a high chaser death total unless there is a traffic jam which piles up the chasers, possibly caused by law enforcement blocking a road or rush hour. Most people have a life preservation instinct that stops them from getting rolled up in a tornado
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Agree until your last sentence...might want to ask Mike Bettes about that one.
 
No matter what opinions we share or not, the *fact* is that there are increasing articles, discussions, and social media comments from authorities and the general public regarding chaser behavior. More than I've ever seen in a single year. I don't see chaser comments alone feeding the flames. I believe this topic has simply come of age.
 
Where are all of these newbies and amateurs getting close to tornadoes? That's the core of the argument, but where is it happening? Examples? Videos? I understand the concern, and maybe it was well-intentioned at first, but it's a phantom one that has never come to pass. It is exceptionally difficult to get close. You have to nail your forecast, nail your chase execution, be exceptionally in tune with storm motion & RFD strength/behavior, then be at that exact place a few hundred feet across where the tornado's path and the road intersect. Novices cannot do all of that unless it happens to them by sheer chance. By the time they've learned enough to get themselves in that position, they aren't novices any longer.

I'm watching Dick's/Darin's footage again, not once are they in front of the tornado. I'm at a loss to understand how they were in danger.

The reason we're seeing all of the news articles is because we live in the era of clickbait and sensationalism. Maybe the media's always been that way, but when the issues being raised don't have any actual evidence to back them up, that's a strong signal that the concerns being raised are not valid.
 
I'm watching Dick's/Darin's footage again, not once are they in front of the tornado. I'm at a loss to understand how they were in danger.

It's not the best example since the telephoto makes it difficult to judge distance, but honestly I fail to understand your conclusion that it wasn't dangerous. You've never experienced a tornado changing direction? You've never seen a satellite or twin from behind a tornado, or a second meso rapidly develop? You've never seen debris lofted miles from a tornado? Again, I guess it's just a case of our comfort levels being at different levels, but I'm confused by how 'safe' you think it was.
 
Sure, there can be satellites and direction changes - but how often does that happen? How often does a sudden 180-degree change happen with a stable single-vortex tornado? Those are risks almost on par with encountering a Pilger-esque twin a mile away. Risks for sure that one takes for being near/under the meso of a supercell, but "extreme" risks worthy of scorn? That's my objection.

Here's Dick and Darin's actual position when the tornado was crossing the road:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....543728821745.2086362.82405481&type=3&theater

The article showed their highly-zoomed-in shot of the tornado, which was deceptive in showing how close they were. But deception is the name of the game for many media outlets these days. I call foul.
 
OK, well to be clear, I aint 'scorning' it--I'd probably give the people who chased a high-five. I think we just have to agree to disagree about the 'extreme' nature of it. My main concern is the escalation of this sort of footage, it's not a secret that everyone want's to up the ante, and I'm pretty sure you're familiar with some of the reasons why. I just think that with the risk comes a certain amount of responsibility, so that it doesn't breed complacency.
 
Was at a bar yesterday in Papillion, NE (one of the local ones), and they had the history channel up on the big screen, and it was replays of the Stormchasers episodes from 2011 with Reed's crew vs Tim's crew. I'm a bit surprised they are still airing those old episodes, but in retrospect the inherent dangers of what we do are quite apparent.

Note: That show loved to call people "extreme" stormchasers. I don't consider myself an extreme chaser by any means, but every person who's ever asked about my chasing experiences thinks I'm crazy, so perhaps extreme is a relative term.
 
Chasers should feel no ethical responsibility to prevent idiots from copying them. Sorry to be blunt, but the world has enough warning labels already. It should be blatantly obvious to even the most uneducated copycat that driving right up to a tornado increases your risk. No one is forcing anyone to copy extreme behavior, let them make their own choices.

A better ethical question would be, what is the risk I run of hurting myself and my loved ones if I get close and get things badly wrong?
 
Experienced chasers get close and know what they are doing and can safely maneuver around/beside a tornado or situation. If someone new to chasing gets close it is dumb luck probably.

Comparing stats of other sports is useless because lets say I go skiing I am for sure going down a hill and maybe towards a tree. While chasing you are VERY LUCKY to get close to danger even as an experienced person.

There are only a handful of chasers that consistently get close ... I have only been doing so now for about three years. Now my definition of close is within a 1/2 mile to others that may be far away.
 
I still have problems with a neck injury to this very day that occurred during a game in '73. It was my fault it occurred (tackled a guy with my head down) and I've never blamed anyone but myself for it. I was taught to do this properly, I failed to adhere to my coaching, and still pay the price. I knew better, but didn't care at the time.
Not surprisingly, I feel EXACTLY the same way towards the few fools that throw caution literally to the wind, and put themselves in grave danger for the shot of a lifetime. Not to sound cold...but if they get killed doing this....or seriously injured....IT'S ON THEM.....PERIOD. They know better. They opt to forego the many warnings. Vanity and pride often overrule common sense.
The last thing we need in this country is yet another law....something for people to OBEY.
 
What many of us are overlooking are the dangers "idiotic" behavior poses to others. Irresponsible behavior is also hazardous for non-chasers who are on public roads, including families fleeing storms. I know a lot of hard core chasers don't care. This has to be the most self-serving and selfish attitude you can imagine. Then there are the first responders. Most are not severe weather experts. They go where they are needed. I've seen them drive right through destructive hail and into storms with serious rotation. Do you really want to be the chaser who does something stupid and the responders coming to assist you are killed? This is just common sense.

This the underlying problem with chasing right now. It's all about "me."
 
We're all speaking in hypotheticals. The stuff everyone's so worried about virtually NEVER happens:

- Amateurs getting too close to tornadoes and getting hit
- Impacted chasers taking emergency services away from locals
- Chasers who get too close getting hurt or killed on a routine basis (it's happened ONCE in 45 years)

The big kicker to all of this, to me, is that nearly every respected veteran will take the opportunity to get close when it arises. I can rattle off a dozen classic tornado videos shot from close range by vets that nearly everyone has heard about. It seems like there is a.) a double standard, and b.) crying wolf about hypothetical bad scenarios that almost never happen.

It's like the hyping meteorologist who says EVERY YEAR that the east coast is going to have a record hurricane season with a half dozen Cat 3 or greater landfalls. Those kind of people make it their platform to shout that every year. We all know it will eventually (maybe 15 years from now), but when it does happen, they'll claim that they predicted it.

We all know that it's inevitable that another chaser will be killed. But it's also likely that it won't be for many years! We know it's an exceptionally rare thing for that to happen, and the evidence proves it. I'm not saying that that inevitability won't be a tragedy, but to say it's a "growing" problem and getting worse? Please!

I think there are better ways to preach chase safety than constantly crying that the sky is falling and that we're headed for some type of day of reckoning.
 
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