‘More will die': The ethics of up-close tornado chasing

rdale

rdale

EF5
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Daring storm chasers have come perilously close to violent tornadoes this spring, while acquiring some of the most dramatic storm scenes ever filmed.

But the videos have raised important questions about how aggressive chasers should be when they pursue these storms, whether for the thrill or for research.

How close is too close? Does “extreme” close-up video, obtained and sold by chasers and shared by media for profit, encourage copycat chasing that puts people’s lives at risk?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...l-die-the-ethics-of-up-close-tornado-chasing/

[Where's my popcorn emoji?!?]
 

Second skier death this week brings season total to eleven: On track for a record?

High-Profile Skiing Deaths Put Spotlight on Head Injury Prevention

Fatalities - According to the National Ski Areas Association (NSAA): During the past 10 years, about 41.5 people have died skiing/snowboarding per year on average. During the 2011/12 season, 54 fatalities occurred out of the 51.0 million skier/snowboarder days reported for the season.
https://www.nsaa.org/media/68045/NSAA-Facts-About-Skiing-Snowboarding-Safety-10-1-12.pdf
 
I love sharing these stats too...but the numbers arent a far comparison. How many people Ski? Play football? The numbers are skewed.

You would have to take the injuries/deaths chasing and multiply by 1000 to compare apples to apples. NO?




Dan Robinson said:
Annual deaths:

Skiing: 41
Whitewater rafting: 10
Skydiving: 20
Mountain climbing: 25.

Injuries annually:

Football: 420,581
Cycling: 521,578

More sports injury statistics:
http://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/sports-injuries
Click to expand...
 
ericjkelly said:
I love sharing these stats too...but the numbers arent a far comparison. How many people Ski? Play football? The numbers are skewed.

You would have to take the injuries/deaths chasing and multiply by 1000 to compare apples to apples. NO?
Click to expand...

The exact numbers can certainly be nitpicked, but the analogy is valid. I just depends on what metric one chooses to focus on. Three active-participant deaths over the lifetime of the activity (likely containing several tens of millions of hours of chasing overall) is probably quite comparable to the other elevated-risk activities that are accepted and celebrated by the public.

Motorcycling is probably the best counterpoint I've seen raised. Again, we're looking at just one metric here (deaths per 100 million miles), but the fatality rate for motorcycling is between 30 and 40. I can only take a guess for the total lifetime miles covered by all of the chasing world, but it's likely *well* into the tens of millions.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810990.pdf

If we can take anything away from this, it's that the WaPo has certainly solidified themselves as an anti-chaser clickbait outlet. This is not their first go at it either. Just look at the chosen headline for this one. Chasers beware of future interview requests.
 
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This is always an interesting subject. I have recently predicted that the number of chasers killed will eventually begin to rise, to an average of about 1 per year, if we experience multiple higher-end severe weather days every year. Chasing is a dangerous pursuit and higher death rates are limited only by the number of violent storms. I don't think you can compare chasing with extreme sports because the number of participants and the frequency of risks skew the numbers.

I want to make it clear that when I say "chasers" I'm mostly referring to the growing numbers of locals. I also want to say I don't care how close anyone gets to a twister. That is their own business. However, if someone is driving in a manner that endangers me or the people chasing with me then it's a problem I'll deal with.

The reasoning for potential death rate increases are simple: 1: There is a culture now of newer chasers who grew up with social media where the reasoning and purpose for chasing has been distorted so any type of pursuit (at any cost) is justified. e.g., chasers who are more concerned about getting a clip on YouTube or Facebook in record time instead of calling in reports or conducting said "research." 2: Irresponsible TV chasing (including news station competition) that encourages others to act like "idiots." re: south of the El Reno event. 3: Our societies obsession with high-risk sports where participants are killed or seriously injured and quickly forgotten. 4: Mobile devices that allow anyone to find a violent storm. 5: The lack of law enforcement, media and veteran chaser intervention with this problem years ago when it **might** have done some good. Then again, the justification behind the irresponsible chasing antics was often false as we now know.
 
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The challenge I see isnt that people are getting closer to tornado's, the probably is the pure # of chasers. Every year we add chasers, not lose them. Deaths will happen when log jams happen and chasers cant get out of the way in time because of traffic. We have all experienced the struggle to get onto the main route when there are 50 cars whipping by. Just the number of chasers will create the deaths
 
If you are close enough to a tornado, or in the direct path of a tornado whereas a traffic concern will put your life in danger, what makes you any different than the people that get "close"? If you are concerned for your well being, then simply don't put yourself in the situation to be affected by chaser traffic jams. I prefer the far pictures that emphasize the the structure of the storm as a whole anyways.
 
ericjkelly said:
The challenge I see isnt that people are getting closer to tornado's, the probably is the pure # of chasers. Every year we add chasers, not lose them. Deaths will happen when log jams happen and chasers cant get out of the way in time because of traffic. We have all experienced the struggle to get onto the main route when there are 50 cars whipping by. Just the number of chasers will create the deaths
Click to expand...

Yep, this kind of event seems like a mass casualty event just waiting to happen. Wouldn't be surprised if it finally does one of these years. Most likely would occur near a large metropolitan area (i.e., another 31 May 2013 scenario in OKC, only the tornado stays down as it moves into town).
 
The closest analogy I can think of is street racing. Low number of participants and involves idiots on public roadways going far above the speed limit (describes some chasers). Annually, about 65 deaths from street racing, of which 25% are innocent bystanders. I think with all of the people parking in the middle of the road, core punching at 60 mph, and generally driving at 20+ mph over the speed limit, not to mention getting really close to tornadoes, more deaths are sure to occur. The scary part for me is that some of those deaths are going to involve non-chasers who happen to be driving on the same road as a chaser.

On a side note, when I see chasers set up their tripods in the middle of the road, I secretly want to run over their tripod. Don't hate me. I'm just tired of chasers acting like they own the road. You're not law enforcement, you're not out there saving lives, you're not doing scientific research. You're recording videos to sell and publish on YouTube. Stop blocking the road from those of us with training and credentials who can actually help victims.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Stormtrack mobile app
 
I was actually quite surprised at how tame the article was. Doswell was practically sedate, maybe he wasn't feeling well...

Anyhow, the people who are making these ridiculous comparisons to skiing, mountain climbing etc seem to have missed the point that the focus of the article is on EXTREME chasing, and not chasing in general. The risks of regular-ol chasing are probably comparable to skiing etc--Its like an experienced person going down an intermediate slope, when some freakish accident occurs and they hit a rock or something... The analogy to *extreme* chasing is more like someone jumping out of a helicopter to ski down a 14er in winter...the risk level is exponentially higher. And the point of the article is that the attention it gets then drives people who are basically complete novices to take these insane risks to get footage--like a first-time skier attempting a double black diamond. That is what is going to result in more deaths.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the main distinction between something like base-jumping and extreme chasing is this: If a base-jumper jumps to his death or a sky-diver's chute fails to deploy, the emergency responders just come and scrape the body off the ground and that's it. In contrast, if some idiot chaser gets sucked up by an EF-5, the emergency responders have to respond in the midst of extremely hazardous conditions, which in turn put them at a risk. So, it's just not as simple as saying 'it's the chaser's choice'--that person has to consider the risk he/she is potentially creating for others. A closer analogy to this is something like extreme mountaineering, like a party going up K2. And believe me, the climbing community has certainly had and will continue to have these sort of discussions, it's not so cut-n-dry as some here would like to believe.
 
So many problems with the responses here.

First, to get close to tornadoes requires a very high level of skill and forecasting knowledge. Novices simply aren't going to get themselves into these situations with any regularity. I can't even do it more than once or twice every season.

Second, not all tornadoes are the same. There is a world of difference between an El Reno and a Wynnewood. Getting close to one is different than the other. I wouldn't even call Wynnewood an "extreme chasing" example. Dick and Darin were a few hundred yards from a very small (but violent) tornado that was moving AWAY from them. There wasn't anything extreme about that in terms of any danger they were in personally.

I'm really sick of all of the hyperbole, especially from those in the chase community that should know better. And that includes many veterans who IMO are abusing their position in the community to perpetuate this intellectually dishonest tripe, for what reason I can't even fathom. Is it to assert some type of self importance or relevance? I have no idea. It only gives these media trolls something to feed on to further malign me and people like me, and for that I'm pretty incensed.

If you want to prove how dangerous chasing is, show video. Show statistics. Opinions don't matter any more. We're in the age of "logic and reason", so stop grandstanding these silly opinions that are no better than Lynn Walker's works.
 
I think Doswell just gave up. He fought the good fight for quite some time. Most people who have been chasing for over 20+ years no longer care about what chasing has become and they don't have the energy to deal with the retaliation that comes from being critical.
 
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