More tornado tour groups encountering dangerous weather

[Mark Ellinwood]

While the hail video did spur the initial conversation, it is by no means the only example of tour groups being in the wrong spot. Just earlier this year large farm equipment nearly took out a tour van. A small adjustment into how that equipment landed on the van, and people could have been killed.

It's a disturbing trend, with more tour groups and more people trying to get closer to the storm. If this keeps up, it'll be sooner rather than later when a member of a tour group gets injured or worse due to storm damage. I don't mind it so much when it's individual chasers going out and getting their thrills, but I fear for the people who put their lives into the hands of these tour group chasers. And it's obviously not all tour groups who are partaking in this behavior, either. There are some tours that have chasers that I fully respect.

 

[Jim Michael]

The person filming this was behind a windshield with questionable integrity following an impact while the driver starts exiting the scene at a high rate of speed. Another impact (high probability) might have resulted in an injury. Those driving in these conditions should be knowledgable about risk mitigation. It wouldn't be a bad idea to develop strategies for handling emergency situations beforehand. Panic is bad in emergencies.

 

[ChristofferB]

The result? More room on the roads for the rest of us.

I don't think the elimination of tour vans would give that much extra room on the roads. Most of them take some 5+ people in them, many other non-tour-chasers chase alone or two in the same car.

Having been on four different tours (never on ETT though) I know that none of them aims to go for large hail but if it happens, the excitement is through the roof in the van. Many tour guests may not know the actual risk and trust the tour guide to not put them in extreme harm. Some tours wouldn't mind getting into small hail (that won't damage windshields) for the sake of their tour guests but I don't think anyone would go into baseballs just to 'please the crowd'. Mostly, for one reason, with a smashed window you can't chase the day after and it just won't be worth it.

I think all tours (like all chasers) end up in large hail once in a while. When that happens it may not be the best for the rest of the tour but as long as no-one gets hurt it will definitely be appreciated by many tour guests at the time, which is what I think we see on this video.

 

[Warren Faidley]

For the record, I am all for pointing out reckless and irresponsible behavior that gives storm chasing a bad name, and I applaud anyone (particularly better known chasers) who have the guts to call a spade a spade.
I just think this is a pretty mild example, I've seen much worse from many in this biz--that's why it comes off as odd to me that you single it out. Obviously marketing yourself as "Extreme Storm Chasing" and then taking your group to a nice sunny location 15 miles from the storm so you can view the tornado through a telescope are a bit incompatible. Whether the very idea of 'extreme chasing' is a good thing or not is debatable, but like Joshua I prefer to let live and let live so long as someone isn't screwing things up for me. It may be true that insurance companies etc will crack down (I used to rent cars when I chased from the west coast, and return them hail-dented and totaled...I doubt I could get away with that these days!) but it could also be argued that all the attention the more 'extreme' chasers bring storm chasing ultimately means a lot more money for everyone that makes any money off of chasing (and there are plenty of us who do, even if like in my own case it's just beer money!)

You are right Stan. If this was the only event it would not even be worth mentioning, but it's part of an increasing problem. As noted, there have been reports of the same group running stop signs and speeding recklessly. Many chasers now see this as the only way to make it big in chasing. And because the offender(s) gets away with it, they see no problem. No good will come from this.

W.

 

[Warren Faidley]

While the hail video did spur the initial conversation, it is by no means the only example of tour groups being in the wrong spot. Just earlier this year large farm equipment nearly took out a tour van. A small adjustment into how that equipment landed on the van, and people could have been killed.

It's a disturbing trend, with more tour groups and more people trying to get closer to the storm. If this keeps up, it'll be sooner rather than later when a member of a tour group gets injured or worse due to storm damage. I don't mind it so much when it's individual chasers going out and getting their thrills, but I fear for the people who put their lives into the hands of these tour group chasers. And it's obviously not all tour groups who are partaking in this behavior, either. There are some tours that have chasers that I fully respect.

You nailed it. It's the trend that's the problem and the general acceptance that foolish close calls (not accidents) are a good marketing tool. This was not just about the hail, but the way it's being promoted as a great experience during a tour.

And yes there are some excellent tour groups like Roger Hill's group whom I'd be comfortable sending family members with.

I think the news media plays a big part in taking responsibility for the problems. Just last year the Weather Channel was promoting stupid chasing by placing their celebrities in dangerous chase situations and their own crew nearly ended up in OZ. People have been brainwashed into thinking this the "norm" in chasing, so it's almost impossible to offer a counterpoint without being labeled, ignored or attacked. After all, why ruin the show for everyone who enjoys the bad behavior. But there is hope. TWC is completely avoiding the stupidity this year and at least one National advertiser has pulled a chaser-related commercial because it was deemed "insensitive." I've been chasing for too long to see storm chasing go down the toilet without a fight. Close calls, hail damage and other dangers are all part of the chase but there is a big divide between your personal risks and putting other people's lives in danger -- then using such events as a promotion. As someone pointed it out to me in a private email, I suspect "Darwinism" will come into play sooner than later.

W.

 

[James Hyde]

If your company is willing to foot the bill for stunts like this then what is there to stop them. I say stunts, because it is completely reasonable and possible today with dual-pol etc, to avoid monster hail in almost all situations. The only concern I would have would be for the safety of the passengers and operators, but I don't believe any vehicle body has been or could be pierced by monster hail. So assuming safety is not compromised, I say let them do what they want. Let the underwriters deal with it, it's not like they don't know the risks of the company when it is named "Extreme Tornado Tours" to begin with. That being said, maybe Timmer can use his R&D bank to develop a plastic composite windshield, that would be nice.

 

[Joshua Nall]

The only good that comes from it is that people will be doing what they want to do If I were on a tour I'd want to see big hail. It appears that most tour guests like it.
White water rafting is a good example I think. Probably the most dangerous thing I've done. Back when I was younger, there would be 100 people in a church group travel to CO, get in a raft, and some had never been in a raft or used a paddle. No serious injuries with anyone on my trip. But the same group of people on another trip.... one girl broke her leg and another got hung up under water under a log, and they had to pop her lose. Talked to the guy who did it and he said she would definitely have drowned if they hadn't noticed her. Several families said they were never going again, it was so dangerous. Yet the companies don't fear being sued by someone evidently. I always thought that if people sign a waiver it absolutely prohibited them from bringing a lawsuit. If that is not the case, it should be.... I've heard different lately. As with any activity people are going to push the envelope... and as the extreme stuff becomes more common and visible, more common people want to try it. I don't mind people having their own opinions about safety and such, it's just that everyone has different opinions.

 

[Jeff Duda]

I don't really know anything about insurance specifically for chase companies, but I'm in the crowd of "live and let live." Being a car owner who uses his personal vehicle to chase, I understand the risks and accompanying costs that come with getting a vehicle damaged while chasing. I only have standard personal vehicle coverage (comprehensive and collision). I bought my car already having hail damage, so i got a nice discount, but my insurance company made me get a damage estimate when they started covering it. I know full well that if I go off chasing in my car and get the windshield busted up or lose head/tail light fascia or get severe dents that I'm on my own for repairing those. Is the insurance provided to chasing companies any different? My understanding is that chase companies get insurance more for personal injury/medical reasons. If insurance companies are stupid enough to insure a chase company against vehicle damage caused by weather, then that company was insanely stupid to begin with IMO. If the insurance contract states that drivers are not to purposely take damage from any type of weather (be it hail, tornado, wind, flood, or other), then the tour company would be responsible for that damage, which the insurer should not have a problem with. By showing any video of that, the tour company is probably supplying evidence of willfully taking damage and thus breaking contract.

So what if a tour driver decides to put his van into large hail? Vehicles do a very good job protecting passengers against hail entering the vehicle. Yeah, windows can get smashed up. But as long as you don't stay in 4"+ hail after the windows are coming out of the frame, so what if the van gets trashed by it? It won't harm the driveability of the vehicle (again, assuming windows don't get fully punched out or removed from the frame). Even if someone did stick around to the point where hail was entering the vehicle, don't chase companies make all participants sign waivers regarding injuries (basically, "we're not responsible if you get hurt or killed while out here"...you chose to be out here, so you choose to leave yourself vulnerable to excessive personal risk)? Even if I'm wrong about that and a tour guest gets injured and tries to sue, that's still a matter for the courts, not for insurance companies.

In summary, while I would never do something like that while chasing in my personal vehicle, I don't see how a tour company doing that makes all tour companies or even all chasers look bad.

 

[Stephen Levine]

When I ran my tour company, Tornado Alley Safari Tours, safety always came first. On two separate occasions, we had to give up a tornado because the only road leading to it was enveloped in tumbling of huge hail. It was very painful to miss the tornadoes, but of course nobody got hurt and my clients fully understood the wisdom of avoiding the hail. In each case, the NWS was telling spotters to immediately evacuate the area.

 

[George Grant]

I guess I often have a tendency to look on the bright side, and the fact that over time, irresponsible behavior often takes care of itself. If some of the tour groups start getting denied coverage by insurance companies, some of them will end up getting grounded.

The result? More room on the roads for the rest of us.

John
VE4 JTH

Hear. Hear. Much to my wife's chagrin, I can and do find the positive attributes to almost any situation. With this, I say who cares what "entertainment" these entrepreneurs are providing their customers? Did it affect any other travelers on the roadway? Didn't appear so. Move on. Life's too short to worry about such things.

George

 

[George Grant]

Oh, so, you own a tour group? So, you're trying to pass off your business concerns to the rest of us hobbyists who typically have no financial concern? Bah.

 

[Shane Adams]

Obviously rental companies won't be keen on letting chasers take their cars out if they get hail-totaled cars back but that has two easy solutions:
1. Drive out there and save yourself the trouble
2. Attempt to avoid hail at all costs

We chased exclusively in rentals all season this year due to a car issue, and I can attest to this. I have always taken the high road when it comes to chasing in rentals, and avoid hail at all costs....which makes seeing tornadoes much more difficult. For whatever reason, we rarely get into hail in our own vehicle chasing the way we normally chase (more aggressive than in rentals), but it seems every time we're in a rental we have to dodge hail like crazy.

Because rental places now do credit checks instead of just a hold on a debit card, most places turn me away (I haven't had credit since I paid everything off 13 years ago; didn't realize that was a bad thing then...woops), but a lady who works at a place down the road from us somehow by-passed the credit check the first day I went in back in April. So, I had this person who would "bend the rules" to allow me to rent (and subsequently chase) all Spring. I've always respected rental property anyway, but I was especially careful to bing the cars back exactly as they were when I took them, out of respect to her. Made for an often-times frustrating season, but at the end of the day I didn't have a destroyed car on my conscious on top of the disappointing chase season.

I always assumed that, despite the fact I paid for insurance, if I brought back a hail-damaged car, that claim would eventually lead insurance costs to rise, and somehow, somewhere down the road if enough people pulled that stunt, it would raise prices....or institute stricter policies for renting....such as credit checks.

 

[Stan Rose]

...
I always assumed that, despite the fact I paid for insurance, if I brought back a hail-damaged car, that claim would eventually lead insurance costs to rise, and somehow, somewhere down the road if enough people pulled that stunt, it would raise prices....or institute stricter policies for renting....such as credit checks.

That's what loss-damage waiver is for. They charge me an outrageous 50% more than they should be charging me for peace of mind in case I bring back the car with damage, and in return I have peace of mind and don't have a panic attack if im within 50 miles of big hail. It's basically insurance, which is inherently evil to begin with if you ask me

 

[Warren Faidley]

You might want to read the fine print of the LDW. I've not rented a vehicle lately for chasing, but I remember someone recently telling me at least one rental car company "excludes" using the vehicle for something that could be considered as chasing. Regardless, they would have to prove you did it on purpose. Then again, with GPS recorders in most rental cars, who knows what might happen in the future.

W.

 

[Hannah.Taylor]

Warren, have you any stats on insuring a tornado tour? I would be interested in seeing the actual numbers on cost vs claims filed vs claims paid. if claims arent being filed or paid out on, on these tours then i dont see why insurance companies would bail. They are always happy to take your money. (i used to be an insurance adjuster)

just wondering how you know insurance companies are bailing on tornado tours?

or is this just speculation of what you believe is happening based on these actions?

I cant see it being any more risky to insure than an amusement park, especially considering only 3 have ever died chasing. but thats just my perspective and opinion.

Had the same thoughts RE: Tour group safety and insurance and how tour companies are showing it off rather than trying to conceal it. I personally would not join a tour group that makes light of such damage by promoting videos of their clients being in danger.

It's not really that hard to stay out of damaging hail or debris. Just means that sometimes you may be a bit further away from the storm than you'd like to be.

because its what customers want. they want to core punch, they want to get in the bears cage. they want to FEEL it to see it up close and personal. the ultimate thrill.

same reasons kids go to an amusement park..for the THRILL. the adventure, the adrenaline rush.