Meteorology degree: Worth the investment?

[John Wetter]

A very interesting, if not depressing articles for those seeking employment or thinking about attending school for meteorology...

PDF Document from the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society titled:
"Recent and Future Trends in U.S. Undergraduate Meteorology Enrollments, Degree Recipients, and Employment Opportunities" John A. Knox

tinyurl.com/6g22j5

 

[Jayson Prentice]

I remember this from down in New Orleans at the latest AMS Conference in January. Definitely not a pretty site, but if it something you love to do then you have to at least try, right? One of the biggest things that the presenter (I believe it was Knox), indicated was the increase in people continuing on after the bachelor's degree, notice in one of the tables how the number of graduates continued on with education was nearly 30%!

I'm sure everybody that is going to get a degree is aware of how challenging it is to try and get into the NWS. Private sector jobs are likely easier to get into then the NWS at this time, but even those have fairly good competition.

I'm left with one year, as I graduate in the spring with my bachelor's in Meteorology, along with a minor in Geology (Hydrology). Still not sure what I'll do...

 

[Mike Smith]

I'm left with one year, as I graduate in the spring with my bachelor's in Meteorology, along with a minor in Geology (Hydrology). Still not sure what I'll do...

This is an excellent combination.

What I recommend to budding meteorologists is that you get a degree in meteorology but find a secondary specialty: Hydrology, business, computer science, broadcasting, etc., and strong written and verbal communications skills. If you need to take some additional writing and/or speech classes that don't count toward your degree do it! It will be a great investment.

Some young meteorologists have questioned why I put so much emphasis on communication skills. Here's why: Regardless of whether you work for the NWS or private sector, a forecast that is not effectively communicated is worthless. In some private sector jobs, you have to write reports. They have to be well-organized and easy to read from the client's point of view.

Hiring decisions are based on "who can bring the most value to the organization?" Build your value and you'll have little problem getting a job.

If there are any questions for employers, please post them. While I cannot speak for all employers, I might be able to shed some insights if any students on this board wish to have them.

 

[Patrick Marsh]

One of the biggest things that the presenter (I believe it was Knox), indicated was the increase in people continuing on after the bachelor's degree, notice in one of the tables how the number of graduates continued on with education was nearly 30%!

This number (30%) is one of the best indicators as to how the job market is fairing. As jobs become tougher and tougher, students just go back to school for their masters. As more jobs are created / open up this number creeps back lower.

For those interested in joining the NWS, 30% continuing on for a masters is very high. If you are interested in an NWS position I would recommend getting your masters. Why? Because when presented with two equal candidates, the only exception being one has a masters and one does not, who do you think will be hired? (Not to mention the scoring system heavily favors a masters graduate than a non-masters graduate.)

 

[mikegeukes]

In the latest Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society
there is a article by John Knox (University of Georgia)

ARE WE GRADUATING TOO MANY ATMOSPHERIC SCIENTISTS? AN UPDATE​

http://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/130540.pdf

"Based on the results of this article, if current trends in undergraduate meteorology enrollment and employment in the United States continue, there will be far more degreed meteorologists than jobs in meteorology during the next decade."

Mike

 

[David Draun]

Might I add to this, that a GIS certification with a meteorology degree is also a good selling point when pursing a Met career. I have not too many classes left to take for GIS and I graduate in about two semesters.

One word of advice though, the Calculus is moidah!!

 

[Dean Baron]

After reading this article i am questioning whether or not to try for a degree in meteorology. I love whether, especially the severe aspect of it, but i'm not the greatest at math or science and that alone gives me a disadvantage. My dream has always to be a meteorologist, but after this article and other reasons i'm left wondering if this is the right decision. I start college this fall, and would start out taking credits for the meteorology proffesion, but i also have a love for geography. Wondering which path would be the best one considering my not great skill for math/science on top of the competitive market for meteorology jobs, especially since my biggest passion is for severe weather (with winter weather added in as a second living here in Minnesota). Any thoughts would be appreciated either by post or by PM!

 

[Brandon Goforth]

That's why I went and got a Business-MIS degree rather than a Meteorology degree. I learned weather on my own time.

 

[Jayson Prentice]

Ah... But good luck getting a job in the NWS, or another meteorologist position with the Business-MIS degree!

Dean, being 'bad' at math and science in general is not a good combination to have while trying to enter a Meteorology department. I know at ISU, we will typically start with 35-50 freshman that declare meteorology majors; and by the end of sophomore year the class is typically under 25. I can't imagine it being too much different for other colleges/universities around the country. What college are you attending this fall Dean? If geography is your second love, it definitely wouldn't be a bad choice to start with taking both mteor/geography intro classes to be on the safe side.

 

[Joel Wright]

Before going into Chemistry, I was originally going to major in Meteorology. Because of the fairly heavy math curriculum, I was considering minoring in mathematics as sort of a "back up" in case I couldn't find a good job as a meteorologist. I would have loved to have been a math professor as well as a meteorologist. But I guess that's just a matter of preference. That's certainly an option to consider if you like advanced mathematics.

The Hydrology minor mentioned above is also an excellent option. That certainly gives you more value in your consideration for a NWS meteorologist. I'm sure that's the case in the private sector as well.

Basically, try to diversify your education as much as possible. It will make you all that much more valuable to the work force.

 

[Chris Hayes]

After reading this article i am questioning whether or not to try for a degree in meteorology. I love whether, especially the severe aspect of it, but i'm not the greatest at math or science and that alone gives me a disadvantage. My dream has always to be a meteorologist, but after this article and other reasons i'm left wondering if this is the right decision. I start college this fall, and would start out taking credits for the meteorology proffesion, but i also have a love for geography. Wondering which path would be the best one considering my not great skill for math/science on top of the competitive market for meteorology jobs, especially since my biggest passion is for severe weather (with winter weather added in as a second living here in Minnesota). Any thoughts would be appreciated either by post or by PM!

I too would love to be a meteorologist, but the math is the stopping point for me, along with having the feeling that so many meteorologists were being graduated from our colleges and universities, I might graduate with a degree and have nowhere to go. Thankfully, I have a lot of interests and have a backup plan of working in construction management, along with starting my own businesses

 

[Jesse Risley]

Regardless of what you decide to do degree wise, I can't agree enough with the diversification argument. There is never any guarantee that you will find suitable employment in your major area. I would recommend minoring in some other field that you would find enjoyable to work in.

As far as actual degree is concerned, I don't think it much matters where you complete your undergraduate degree, as long as it's from an accredited university. You may choose to look more closely at your choice of colleges or universities when pursing graduate degrees, as they tend to carry more weight in that regard.

On a side note, the math was a stumbling point for me too, which is why I chose a different path in life and learned weather on the side.

 

[Kiel Ortega]

Lots of mentioning of GIS, which is a great field to get experience in if doing METR as a major. However, I think programming (computer science) is huge too, especially for those moving on to a higher degree (masters+). It's always funny to hear incoming grad students swear they won't program. It's also disappointing when masters students (or even job applicants!) can't simply parse a file and do stuff with the data in the file.

 

[Patrick Marsh]

If you know ultimately that you are wanting to do meteorology, and that you are planning on going to graduate school, you might consider not getting a meteorology undergraduate degree. My undergraduate degree is in mathematics and physics and now I have a masters in meteorology to go with it. After all, meteorology is nothing more than applied mathematics and applied physics. An additional benefit of having a physics undergraduate degree is that it opens a lot of doors for employment should something destroy the meteorology job market - and the starting pay for a physics graduate is typically higher than that of a meteorologist.

To reiterate what Kiel said above, computer science is becoming crucial. In fact, I graduated my undergraduate degree without taking chemistry. How (and why) did I do this? Since chemistry is also an applied mathematics / physics discipline (at least the classes I would have to take to fulfill a degree requirement for math and physics) I didn't want to waste my time redoing what I knew I could do or figure out on my own. Instead I had the option of replacing my chemistry courses with computer science courses - so I did.

While I know atmospheric chemistry is important, I can honestly say that in all of my masters and PhD research and course work I have never had to use any atmospheric chemistry that wasn't covered in a physics class. However, not a day goes by that I'm not using the programming skills and languages learned in my computer science track.

 

[Dean Baron]

Ah... But good luck getting a job in the NWS, or another meteorologist position with the Business-MIS degree!

Dean, being 'bad' at math and science in general is not a good combination to have while trying to enter a Meteorology department. I know at ISU, we will typically start with 35-50 freshman that declare meteorology majors; and by the end of sophomore year the class is typically under 25. I can't imagine it being too much different for other colleges/universities around the country. What college are you attending this fall Dean? If geography is your second love, it definitely wouldn't be a bad choice to start with taking both mteor/geography intro classes to be on the safe side.

I wouldnt say i'm bad at them, but they would definately not be easy for me. I'm going to a community college for 2 years, then transferring to St. Cloud State after that if everything goes as planned...

 

[Andy Elliott]

I have B.S. degrees in Math and Atmospheric Science, as well as an M.S. in Atmospheric Science. From day one it was always my dream to be a forecaster for the National Weather Service - but once you graduate you realize how difficult it is to get in the door. I have applied for numerous positions all over the United States and haven't even been contacted for an interview because of my lack of experience.

I was lucky enough to get a contractor job as a research meteorologist, but it's hard to plan your life when your job is only guaranteed for a year at a time. There are an abundance of term, contract, and temporary positions in meteorology - but finding a permanent job is next to impossible. I have even considered going for my PhD hoping that will help my chances - but after reading this article I'm not sure if it is worth it.

From what I have seen in my few months out of college - I would highly suggest getting minor in a specialized area. Computer science and GIS are two big ones that I hear all the time in the private field. Getting a minor in hydrology or geology can help your chances getting a job with the USGS or the Army Corps of Engineers.

It's a tough world out there for us meteorologists. Best of luck to everyone!

 

[Tony Perkins]

I went to ISU with a 75% chance of Computer Science and a 25% chance of meteorology (possibly as a minor if that was possible). After taking the two calc classes for Comp Sci and barely scraping by, I knew the extra math required for meteorology was not for me. Point is, if you have a backup major, I think you will have some time to see how math is working out for you before you need to commit to meteorology or not. If your backup major is technical, you may need those intro classes anyway.

 

[Mike Smith]

It is not "next to impossible" to get a job as a weather forecaster. The private sector is growing.

One point I wish to make after reading some of the recent posts in this thread. With few exceptions, masters degree will not improve your chances of getting a forecasting position in the private sector.

 

[mikegeukes]

This fall, I plan on studying Geographic Information Sciences
at Central Michigan University, Michigan State University or
Lansing Community College.

Mike

 

[Mark Blue]

Math and physics were my achilles heal, so back in the day when the Meteorology program first came into existence at the University of Nebraska Lincoln I decided to forego the advanced math and physics and just get a BS degree in Geography with a specialization in Climatology and let storm chasing be my outlet for my love of weather. The only difference between the two programs was the extra math and physics, so I decided to diminish the brain damage and signed up for the Climatology route.

I have never worked in a weather related field, but I've held several successful jobs in the financial services industry, so keep your options open once you're out of school. The jobs I referred to were very well paying positions and you'd be surprised at what you can do even if your degree is completely unrelated to where you wind up.

 

[Jason Branz]

Two things that were mentioned should be mentioned again:

1. Communication skills. Mike is definitely correct; if your forecast isn't communicated properly, it isn't going to be effective. We see more and more run-on sentences and bad grammar in the media nowadays, and I've noticed more than a few of these in AFDs as well.

2. Diversify. Having computer programming skills gives you a leg up on the competition in science-related fields, in my opinion. Knowledge of Perl, PHP, GIS, etc. is definitely a plus...my experience with the first two helped me land my current job. Also, in the event of layoffs, those skills could help you avoid being cut too.

 

[Darrin Rasberry]

I went to ISU with a 75% chance of Computer Science and a 25% chance of meteorology (possibly as a minor if that was possible). After taking the two calc classes for Comp Sci and barely scraping by, I knew the extra math required for meteorology was not for me. Point is, if you have a backup major, I think you will have some time to see how math is working out for you before you need to commit to meteorology or not. If your backup major is technical, you may need those intro classes anyway.

Bwahaha, I could probably take a gamble on guessing a few of the profs you had here for the calc sequence.

Calculus II is the most important foundation of the four Calculus classes (using the colloquial term "Calculus IV" for DiffE) and also the toughest. Although not taught as a "weed-out" course it becomes such for many engineers and science majors in general here.

Curiously, the majority of students blow past my exams on visual methods (area between curves, rotation of regions, centroids, polar calculus etc.) but get hung up on the routine "cookbook" chapters on integration formulas and sequences/series. The latter sticks out like a sore thumb in the text, admittedly, both for its unusual spirit and relative newness, but it's the foundation for the crucial concept of Taylor series. That being said, I wish I could have had you as a student, since the fact that you write with a reasonable amount of good structure and adherence to grammar is a sign that I could have taught you well enough for you to earn at least a B.

 

[Patrick Marsh]

2. Diversify. Having computer programming skills gives you a leg up on the competition in science-related fields, in my opinion. Knowledge of Perl, PHP, GIS, etc. is definitely a plus...my experience with the first two helped me land my current job. Also, in the event of layoffs, those skills could help you avoid being cut too.

I know Python is becoming big in scientific computing. I would recommend any up and coming student who is even thinking about doing meteorology to pick up a book on Python and start reading. Once you get your first language down, the rest is just syntax...

One thing I want to say about the math. I firmly believe that anyone can learn calculus as long as they have good algebra skills. Believe it or not, calculus is 90% algebra and then there is one memorization step that is the calculus. What trips up most people is the algebra necessary to get things in a form that allows you to use that one step of calculus that you've memorized.

 

[Matthew Havin]

Worth it? No.

Focus on getting yourself in position for the upcoming energy economy. This is where almost all the good job growth will come from. Some meteorologist will be involved with this especially with wind energy (but not all mets), but if you are intelligent enough to graduate with a BS in meteorology, consider:

* Nuclear engineering
* Electrical engineering
* Petroleum engineering

In many cases, NE's and PE's can get their choice of 2 or 3 job offers with generous starting salaries. If you don't see yourself as an engineer, the medical field is hurting for people. Also, agriculture..... especially local sustainable agriculture will be an enormous growth industry over the next 10-20 years as fossil fuel price increases cut down on the trucking/shipping of food from the world over to your plate.