Looking for respectful opinions about global warming

[NancyM]

Let's take a step back and approach this from a different perspective. There is a decision to be made about how we proceed. So:

If we do address global warming using various methods and it turns out that global warming isn't a problem, what are the worst consequences?

Conversely, if we don't address global warming and it turns out that global warming is happening and progressing, what are the worst consequences?

 

[TJKLECKNER]

I have been living very eco friendly the past 5 years. I spend most of my time outdoors between parks and beaches. Camping and living off the land. I have less miles on my vehicle in one year, than the average storm chaser puts on in a few weeks. I won't buy a vehicle that burns gas below 30 mpg.

What really burns me, is that the people who scream the loudest about saving the planet, are the ones abusing it more. Mega jets, huge yachts, large ocean side mansions. (I thought the sea was rising).

A-listers flock to Google summit in private jets, mega yachts to talk climate change

 

[Jeff Duda]

Let's take a step back and approach this from a different perspective. There is a decision to be made about how we proceed. So:

If we do address global warming using various methods and it turns out that global warming isn't a problem, what are the worst consequences?

Conversely, if we don't address global warming and it turns out that global warming is happening and progressing, what are the worst consequences?

I agree. There is an asymmetric penalty associated with falsely prepping for something that turns out not to be a big deal vs. not preparing for something that ends up being a huge problem.

 

[NancyM]

Another thing to keep in mind is that global warming cannot be stopped on a dime. It's like an accelerating locomotive.

 

[Robert Edmonds]

Let's take a step back and approach this from a different perspective. There is a decision to be made about how we proceed. So:

If we do address global warming using various methods and it turns out that global warming isn't a problem, what are the worst consequences?

Conversely, if we don't address global warming and it turns out that global warming is happening and progressing, what are the worst consequences?

There's predictions, but there is uncertainty. Just like how with the 737 MAX, the addition of a stall safety feature should improve the system. There are feedbacks in our atmosphere system as well, and while you can say they could help mitigate warming, there are many ways they could enhance. That's the thing, this is a risk to the system that can not be tested. Usually we can test the system like with aircraft, except here there is only one.

 

[rdale]

I'm not completely sure that's a valid comparison... Climate change is primarily due to human-caused emissions. We don't need to "test" the hypothesis that reducing those emissions will help reduce future warming.

 

[Robert Edmonds]

I'm not completely sure that's a valid comparison... Climate change is primarily due to human-caused emissions. We don't need to "test" the hypothesis that reducing those emissions will help reduce future warming.

I'm not arguing for warming not occuring. I'm saying uncertainty mitigation is just as equally a valid point for not increasing greenhouse gases. Small changes to large systems can have unpredictable consequences, sometimes large. Often testing, in the engineering world, is conducted to make sure that a small change doesn't lead to an unexpected large consequence. As Rumsfeld said, there are unknown unknowns.

 

[Gordon R Maddison]

LOL. What are lawyers and politicians going to try next? Brain Surgery? Leave the cutting to the surgeons and the science to scientists! It's time we stopped the silliness and just agree that Global Warming is indeed happening. This July was the hottest, not only on record, but in the geological sense, in world history! Maybe we should stop worrying who is at fault and just do what we can to slow it down a bit!!

BTW, I AM a meteorologist.

 

[NancyM]

This:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2019/09/18/teen-climate-activist-greta-thunberg-demands-that-congress-listen-scientists/

and this:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2019/09/23/greta-thunberg-vows-that-if-un-doesnt-tackle-climate-change-we-will-never-forgive-you/

 

[rdale]

This:

Sadly I think you're right - I don't see the current generations caring enough to deal with it. It's up to the kids...

 

[TJKLECKNER]

More than 500 scientists and professionals in climate and related fields have sent a “European Climate Declaration” to the Secretary-General of the United Nations asking for a long-overdue, high-level, open debate on climate change.

Brief CLINTEL aan VN-baas Guterres - Stichting Climate Intelligence Clintel

Professor Guus Berkhout The Hague [email protected] 23 September 2019 Sr. António Guterres, Secretary-General, United Nations, United Nations Headquarters, New York, NY 10017, United States of America. Ms. Patricia Espinosa Cantellano, Executive Secretary, United Nations Framework...

clintel.nl

 

[rdale]

(Link to a press release deleted - never carry a scientific discussion based on a press release, especially one with such glaring errors)

This was known to be coming. The first signature comes from a former Shell Oil engineer who does not study climate. As a matter of fact almost everyone who has signed this editorial (which as a reminder is how you discuss politics - not science) has ZERO background in climate. Or even science.

Climate Science Deniers Planning European Misinformation Campaign, Leaked Documents Reveal

A coalition of climate science denial groups is gearing up for a European media blitz later this month, in an apparent bid to derail efforts to set an EU-wide “net zero” emissions target, documents obtained by DeSmog show. Plans for a self-styled “European Declaration” include press conferences...

www.desmog.co.uk

 

[NancyM]

This article, from a website about science based medicine, has suggestions about reducing susceptibility to pseudoscience . The focus is on preventative education through:
-scientific literacy
-critical thinking
-media literacy

Even though the article is about medicine, many of the points made generalize well to various branches of science.

"Recognized principles of media literacy (again – with much overlap with critical thinking) include:

• Question everything. Don’t believe something just because it feels right – especially if it feels right.
• Think about the source of information. Is it a primary or secondary source? What are the likely biases of that source? Is it tied to an agenda? Is it authoritative?
• Check multiple sources. Are all or most sources saying the same thing?
• Try to track back to the original primary source, rather than trusting someone else’s summary.
• Are the claims being made credible or plausible?
• What does the actual evidence say? Distinguish this from how it is being interpreted, or what speculation is flowing from the data.
• Are there any apparent attempts to manipulate your emotions? Are they appealing to any form of tribalism, fear, greed, or otherwise pushing emotional buttons? Are they using “click bait” headlines, or sensationalizing the facts?"

Media Literacy Is Key

Media literacy is an important component to teaching science and critical thinking. We'll add that to our to-do list.

sciencebasedmedicine.org