Location of event

[rdale]

Your motives are so clear rdale.

Yes - to provide the best spotter info, regardless of who / what level of politics is in the middle. I hate when politics interferes with spotting - it's the biggest downfall of Skywarn when ham clubs get all pissy about those issues.

 

[John Wetter]

Wrong again, "my group" is not allowed to via the Ham 2 meter backbone used by our WFO for receiving ham storm reports. Not I or my group "wont" do this.
We will when asked or allowed to.

I'm confused, who is the organization banning distance reports? Has the NWS said not to forward them or is it the repeater trustees, or some other group?

 

[Tim Shriver]

I'm confused, who is the organization banning distance reports? Has the NWS said not to forward them or is it the repeater trustees, or some other group?

Both the Warning Met in his spotter classes and in the docs and protocols
for our ham storm reporting system which is run by SulCom with the WFOs blessing.

Nothing to do with the repeater owners or our group. We give the WFO what it wants and it does seem to be working for them.

Tim

 

[Tim Shriver]

Yes - to provide the best spotter info, regardless of who / what level of politics is in the middle. I hate when politics interferes with spotting - it's the biggest downfall of Skywarn when ham clubs get all pissy about those issues.

We are not a ham club. (said this many times before also.)

But then you dont ever listen.

How many spotter groups have you ran rdale?

Tim

 

[Wes Carter]

Both the Warning Met in his spotter classes and in the docs and protocols for our ham storm reporting system which is run by SulCom with the WFOs blessing.

We are not a ham club. (said this many times before also.)

I think I'm missing something. Not to pick on you at all, but the quotes above confuse me a bit. It's a HAM storm reporting system, not a HAM club?

I wasn't sure what the acronym SULCOM was all about, so I Googled it and found this page of theirs. The text below is from their report format guide:

Remember: Report Format = TLCS
Time, Location, Condition, Source

All reports are to be provided to Sullivan Weather using the format above and as explained below. The information received in the indicated order provides an efficient means of data transfer from point to point and thus helps to eliminate errors.

Location
(of the Meteorological / Hydrological Event)

"Location" of the event (NOT the location of the observer) is to be provided as a distance (to the closest 1/10 mile, if possible) and direction from a known reference, followed by the county.

**IMPORTANT NOTE**
Aloft event location (Items 1 through 3 on the Criteria page) will most likely NOT be at the same location as the observer. For aloft events, provide the location of the observer followed by the general direction of the event from the observer location.

Ground event location (Items 4 through 13 on the Criteria page) should be at the same location as the observer.

See the example shown in the “Condition” section below.

Example:
"5.2 West-Northwest Jefferson, Jefferson County.”

---Click Here for Details on Why it is Done This Way---

Beginning with the 2008 summer weather season, latitude/longitude coordinates will be accepted in addition to (not as a substitute for) the above if available. The met staff requires distance/direction from a known reference as a key data field for StormData database entries and for release of public information products. In this regard, latitude/longitude coordinates for event location are a "nice to have", not required.

If provided, lat/long coordinates for event location must follow these standards as set by the Served Agency:
a. Decimal degree format must be used.
b. Accuracy level must be five digits to the right of the decimal point.
c. Map Datum reference used must be (TBD)
d. Provide only the numeric components in the report. The “North” component of the latitude and the “West” component of the longitude is implied.
e. Say all numeric elements of the location one digit at a time with a very short pause between the latitude and longitude components.
Example: 42.58340N 88.44346W would be said as: “four two point five eight three four zero, eight eight point four four three four six.”

 

[Patrick Marsh]

Wrong again, "my group" is not allowed to via the Ham 2 meter backbone used by our WFO for receiving ham storm reports. Not I or my group "wont" do this.

You are a bit mistaken here. Unless the NWS paid for the equipment, installation, and maintenance of the towers used for the weather net, they have no authority to regulate what is and isn't said over the airways. The NWS does not regulate the airways; the FCC does.

Now, if a user is interfering with operations, actions can be taken to punish said user, but this would be done under the purview of the FCC, not the NWS. I highly doubt the FCC would consider reporting an estimated distance during emergency operations as interference. Nor do I think they would consider that worthy of an investigation.

If what you state is true, and I have no reason to disbelieve you, and your WCM instructs you not to report estimated distances then one of two things must have occurred.

1. He, or the office, has received substantial misinformation from your group or others in the past and no longer wants to deal with said misinformation.

2. He, or the office, is willing to throw away valuable information in order to give the false impression of always being precise/accurate.

Lastly, I read up on this SULCOM organization, or whatever you want to call it, that keeps being referenced. This is not official NWS policy. It has not been vetted by the NWS management, NOAA management, NOAA legal, NWS Employees Association (the Union). It has not been made available for public comment, nor has it had a public hearing. If your local NWS office wants to adhere to this policy, then so be it, but it cannot be construed as official NWS policy. I can also say that if your local NWS office misses a killer tornado that was observed by a storm spotter because people following this policy rejected a report that wasn't in the proper form (click here for page saying reports in improper form will be rejected), you will have a fiasco on your hand that will involve congressional investigations. Don't believe me? Learn more about the story of the 21 April 1996 killer tornado that hit Fort Smith and Van Buren, AR. This event had an official NWS Service Assessment as well as congressional inquiries that lasted for years.

EDIT:
Tim, just want to clarify that this isn't a condemnation of you. If what you say is true, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, then this is a condemnation of the policy.