Chris Hayes
EF5
We would stop at libraries and get internet data before the chase commences. I sorta miss those days.
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How did you get weather data in pre-Internet days?
- Thread starter Tim Vasquez
- Start date
N Parker
Used Accuweather and DTN alot back in the day as well. Used to work for a farmer that had this hooked up in his barn and I would stop by on "chase days" and drool over the data. Then I got our first computer to actually log on and get data through Accuweather. Saved me from driving 20 miles from the house to the farm, but yes, it was expensive...don't you just miss dial up connections....
David Douglas
EF1
I started chasing in the mid-1980's. In the early days I was quite active in Skywarn so my options were updates on the 2 Meter skywarn nets (you could look up the skywarn repeater frequencies in the repeater book for each city), AM radio, and WX Radio. I stopped by a few NWS offices, but I was never really comfortable doing that. Later on, in addition to those methods, I would stop by hotels and/or restaurants and have them turn on their lobby TV to weather channel, or the local TV station (OKC and Fort Worth-KXAS (Harold Taft) would always go live with good updates). Once cell phones came along, Now-cast buddies were (and still are) a good option. Before access to good mobile data, I would stop by the libraries and log-on mid-day to get an update.
Jim Zandonai
Starting back in the late 70s I got my info from weather radios and some from A.M weatherlater. Mostly Weather radios. This was before TWC.
I still remember the different and distinct voicesand names of the forecasters on the different channels from Moline IL, Rockford and Madison at the time. At that time a Weather radio was priceless. For many years I chased strictly by weather radio radar reports,a map and all was visual..worked suprisingly well.
I still remember the different and distinct voicesand names of the forecasters on the different channels from Moline IL, Rockford and Madison at the time. At that time a Weather radio was priceless. For many years I chased strictly by weather radio radar reports,a map and all was visual..worked suprisingly well.
Lanny Dean
EF5
Ahhhhh, the "doppler Dave" workings!
In my very first years of chasing I was very lucky, I really didn't know how to forecast, so I would simply wait until a watch box went out for my local area drive right into the middle of the box and see what happened.
Got very lucky on the 4-26-91 event this way and even the Catoosa OK evet in 93 and then it seemed like the puzzle pieces started coming together. I found that there were other people interested in doing this and sometime in 93-94? time frame I ran into Steve Miller OK on a storm somwhere near Pawnee OK.
Obviously I had a scanner and since my Mom and Dad were HAM radio operators I was aware of Skywarn and the local freq. they ran.
On a local level I would use those freqs and the local NOAA broadcasts. In the Spring of 93 I found GOES data from my trusty old CompuServ account and started pulling sat maps. This helped me to "chart" frontal positions and the like, of course with this knowledge I started chasing out of state in places like KS, MO, CO and TX. I would then get to my target area and stop by the local NWSFO and ask for guidence. I would also stop by local libraries that had internet access (most didn't) to print out updates.
Also had some great help by some great folks at TV stations throughout the country and most helpful in the Amarillo area!
And the rest is history!
David Hoadley
Stormtrack founder
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2006
- Messages
- 122
Coming in late to current topics after a long pause to work on other projects...
My earliest chasing data in the late 1950s took me to the Bismarck, ND "Weather Bureau." I easily relate to Mike Smith's description of the DIFAX "wet paper fax." It was indeed frustratingly slow to roll out (watching that little luminous light behind the cut bar, scrolling back and forth -pause- back and forth -pause for each narrow line --while my adrenalin pump was going overtime to get out the door and on the road! After printing, I spent many hours intensely studying each hand-drawn line and data entry on those national maps to devine what was going to happen in my small corner of the world. I still recall the cool moist touch of those old maps, hung up to dry, before they were laid out on a large table. Then, the local staff sat down with colored markers to trace the fronts and lows. Then it was clipped to a pegboard for quick reference on how it should look outside, right now --showing data that was already 2-3 hours old.
Well, after many missed tornadoes using only DIFAX, I turned to an upgrade --using the teletype to make current maps. When the forecaster was through plotting his, he gave me the latest run and I did mine. Soon, I was taking a blank surface map to the teletype machine and stood in front with a clipboard braced against the frame and the other end hand-held. As the current data started coming off, I bent over and quickly copied it to a map. Early errors faded, as speed and accuracy increased --just keeping up with that chattering machine. One problem with this source in the early days was that original data errors were not promptly corrected or late reports remained well into the next hour. So, in addition to balancing a clipboard, fast entries, and a sometimes stiff back later that morning --I had to catch each posted hour as it raced by on the rolling paper --and not duplicate late reports on the next map.
Later, I began stopping at "FAA Flight Service Stations" for the same teletype data. However, DIFAX machines were sometimes absent or maps not as current, if there at all. A favorite stop was Gage, OK, where I sometimes had to wait 15 minutes before the operator finished his weather briefings and handed me the data. Even then, he would caution me not to take it far from where he sat at the console, in case he got a call. But when traffic was light, those old fellows pushed back in their chairs, leaned back, and told some funny and great stories about local pilots or about their WWII adventures. ---(I do miss those days)
Later, I too became a fan of "AM Weather" and early broadcasts of The Weather Channel (call ahead and does your overnight motel carry both?). I even carried a portable TV for awhile, to catch weather reports, while passing through local cities and towns. This supplemented my long list of favored AM and FM stations across the plains.
Warren Faidley also mentioned eyeball experience as a benefit to the early veterans --but possibly less depended on by current tech-heavy chasers. Don't overlook it. After you've munched the data and are on the road, take a long look at that sky and relate it to what you've just studied. When was the last time the latest Internet data or radar/satellite image misled you, or you drove into a data hole, or some key device simply crashed. At such times, it is good to have something more to remind you of what reality is.
Maybe that's why I especially value those old slides and films of tornadoes and scenic skies (grainy and fuzzy as they are) --because they cost more to find and meant more to those of us, when we did... "back in the day."
My earliest chasing data in the late 1950s took me to the Bismarck, ND "Weather Bureau." I easily relate to Mike Smith's description of the DIFAX "wet paper fax." It was indeed frustratingly slow to roll out (watching that little luminous light behind the cut bar, scrolling back and forth -pause- back and forth -pause for each narrow line --while my adrenalin pump was going overtime to get out the door and on the road! After printing, I spent many hours intensely studying each hand-drawn line and data entry on those national maps to devine what was going to happen in my small corner of the world. I still recall the cool moist touch of those old maps, hung up to dry, before they were laid out on a large table. Then, the local staff sat down with colored markers to trace the fronts and lows. Then it was clipped to a pegboard for quick reference on how it should look outside, right now --showing data that was already 2-3 hours old.
Well, after many missed tornadoes using only DIFAX, I turned to an upgrade --using the teletype to make current maps. When the forecaster was through plotting his, he gave me the latest run and I did mine. Soon, I was taking a blank surface map to the teletype machine and stood in front with a clipboard braced against the frame and the other end hand-held. As the current data started coming off, I bent over and quickly copied it to a map. Early errors faded, as speed and accuracy increased --just keeping up with that chattering machine. One problem with this source in the early days was that original data errors were not promptly corrected or late reports remained well into the next hour. So, in addition to balancing a clipboard, fast entries, and a sometimes stiff back later that morning --I had to catch each posted hour as it raced by on the rolling paper --and not duplicate late reports on the next map.
Later, I began stopping at "FAA Flight Service Stations" for the same teletype data. However, DIFAX machines were sometimes absent or maps not as current, if there at all. A favorite stop was Gage, OK, where I sometimes had to wait 15 minutes before the operator finished his weather briefings and handed me the data. Even then, he would caution me not to take it far from where he sat at the console, in case he got a call. But when traffic was light, those old fellows pushed back in their chairs, leaned back, and told some funny and great stories about local pilots or about their WWII adventures. ---(I do miss those days)
Later, I too became a fan of "AM Weather" and early broadcasts of The Weather Channel (call ahead and does your overnight motel carry both?). I even carried a portable TV for awhile, to catch weather reports, while passing through local cities and towns. This supplemented my long list of favored AM and FM stations across the plains.
Warren Faidley also mentioned eyeball experience as a benefit to the early veterans --but possibly less depended on by current tech-heavy chasers. Don't overlook it. After you've munched the data and are on the road, take a long look at that sky and relate it to what you've just studied. When was the last time the latest Internet data or radar/satellite image misled you, or you drove into a data hole, or some key device simply crashed. At such times, it is good to have something more to remind you of what reality is.
Maybe that's why I especially value those old slides and films of tornadoes and scenic skies (grainy and fuzzy as they are) --because they cost more to find and meant more to those of us, when we did... "back in the day."
Last edited by a moderator:
beaudodson
EF5
Oh wow - this is a fun thread! Before the internet - it was not that long ago!! Can you imagine where we will go in the next 10-20 years? Just look back at the last 10-20 years. It is quite amazing.
I can remember waking up each morning to watch A.M. Weather. I am fairly certain I was up before anyone else in the family. I would sit there in the basement of our house on the family farm here in Massac County, Illinois - black and white television set. It was no bigger than a 13" screen. I tweeked the little antenna on the back (believe some aluminum foil was involved) and there it was - A.M. Weather!!!! I was in awe at the maps - the looping daily forecast map - then at the end they would show the Severe Weather Outlook. I can remember watching them point to the slight, moderate, and high risk (believe those were the three identifies back then). I would also be excited if I saw that we were going to be in a risk.
If it was a BIG event then I would stay home - cough cough - sick from school!
Next up to bat would be Willard Scott on NBC. I would tell my grandmother that I needed just 5 more minutes before we would leave for school (she worked there and would drive me). We normally left around 7:30. But - I would stretch it out as much as I could.
By eight grade I had my own weather radio. I carried it to school with me - I was the only kid that was allowed to have a radio. Since it was a weather radio - they figured it could do no harm. On a stormy day I would turn it down very low and try to listen to it inside my desk (the kind with the lift lid).
During recess and physical education I would take the weather radio with me - would climb the bleaches to the top and press it against the window. Once we had a tornado watch - wow I was excited. Since I knew so much about weather they let me go to the Kindergarten class and teach them tornado safety rules. I suppose I scared the kids to death - lol. To top it off they put the kindergarten kids in a small trailer out back.
Then when I hit high school I was able to go into the office where they had ACTUALLY cable (I only received four channels at my house on the farm). I would go into the office during lunch and they would let me watch The Weather Channel. Now keep in mind - this is back in the day when The Weather Channel did weather.
I was in heaven! The physical education teacher would have been post my hand drawn weather maps and forecast up on the gym wall. I had a little Commodore Computer back then with a crude printer. We didn't have internet - but at least I could draw things on a map.
THEN Chris Novy came along - I believe I first met him at the NWS Office in Paducah, KY. At that time they were in a small trailer by the airport tower. When the wind would blow their roof would ripple and make noises.
I would marvel at all of the facsimile paper weather maps - occasionally they would be hand drawing severe weather watches on a plastic sheet with a map underneath of it. Behind a few more desks were weather instruments. Then in the back room was the radar! The kind of radar with the green screen and a sweep. You could watch the echoes light up and then fade away with each sweep.
Once while I was at the office one of the meteorologists let me spin the little wheel to look up into the storm. He was showing me how hail was coming out the top of a storm. I am pretty sure at that moment I had "arrived" as far as my weather geekness level. Or so I thought.
Until Chris Novy introduced me to this coming out of Carbondale, Illinois. The radio system would send a signal to a repeated and you could hear a whistling noise when listening to a special scanner. If you could get the signal to come in clear enough then you could receive all of the text data from the NWS Office in Chicago. At that time Chicago did the forecast for southern Illinois.
Eventually Chris got it working - but this was not until after I duct taped two rusty old wheelbarrows together and attached a 30 foot pole to them. On the top of that was a little antenna that Chris had someone else pick up for me.
I nailed the pole to the house - connecting the 2 rusty wheel barrows together. It was wobbly but it worked!
It wasn't long until I was picking up the whistling noise on the radio. I then hooked that up to a received and bought huge roles of printer paper. The kind printer paper you would find in a news station - endless streams of paper. A little teletype printer machine would go back and forth with text - it made the loudest noise. But - I would get the forecast and watches and warnings. On a busy day it would be an hour behind!
My mother was NOT impressed with these amazing feats. Especially the time I installed a 20+ horizontal antenna on the house (by her bedroom window). One night during an ice storm that antenna slowly started tilting - around 2 am it slammed into her window. So, that was the end of that. I moved it to the pony barn room - which was about 250 feet away.
If I needed radar then I would have to drive 30 minutes over to Paducah and look at the radar screen at their office or the flight severe station. I don't know how many trips we made over there - my grandmother would drive me. She never got tired of me talking about the weather - or at least she never told me she did!
When out chasing I would just watch the thunderstorms explode from my hill here in Massac County - Chris taught me about the low level jet. He was even able to whistle into his hand held emergency management radio and make my weather radio siren go off.
Ironically I am back up here now - bought the farm back and built my house. Now we have REAL towers - several! Real weather instruments - and all the computer information one could ever want, need, or request.
Now the NWS occasionally is asking me for a color table for their radar.
We have come a long long way - I don't think those who have always had internet will ever appreciate what all of us went through - back in the day!
Did I mention I received StormTrack in the mail every few months? Hand drawn images and cartoons. lol Great memories.
I can remember waking up each morning to watch A.M. Weather. I am fairly certain I was up before anyone else in the family. I would sit there in the basement of our house on the family farm here in Massac County, Illinois - black and white television set. It was no bigger than a 13" screen. I tweeked the little antenna on the back (believe some aluminum foil was involved) and there it was - A.M. Weather!!!! I was in awe at the maps - the looping daily forecast map - then at the end they would show the Severe Weather Outlook. I can remember watching them point to the slight, moderate, and high risk (believe those were the three identifies back then). I would also be excited if I saw that we were going to be in a risk.
If it was a BIG event then I would stay home - cough cough - sick from school!
Next up to bat would be Willard Scott on NBC. I would tell my grandmother that I needed just 5 more minutes before we would leave for school (she worked there and would drive me). We normally left around 7:30. But - I would stretch it out as much as I could.
By eight grade I had my own weather radio. I carried it to school with me - I was the only kid that was allowed to have a radio. Since it was a weather radio - they figured it could do no harm. On a stormy day I would turn it down very low and try to listen to it inside my desk (the kind with the lift lid).
During recess and physical education I would take the weather radio with me - would climb the bleaches to the top and press it against the window. Once we had a tornado watch - wow I was excited. Since I knew so much about weather they let me go to the Kindergarten class and teach them tornado safety rules. I suppose I scared the kids to death - lol. To top it off
they put the kindergarten kids in a small trailer out back. Then when I hit high school I was able to go into the office where they had ACTUALLY cable (I only received four channels at my house on the farm). I would go into the office during lunch and they would let me watch The Weather Channel. Now keep in mind - this is back in the day when The Weather Channel did weather.
I was in heaven! The physical education teacher would have been post my hand drawn weather maps and forecast up on the gym wall. I had a little Commodore Computer back then with a crude printer. We didn't have internet - but at least I could draw things on a map.
THEN Chris Novy came along - I believe I first met him at the NWS Office in Paducah, KY. At that time they were in a small trailer by the airport tower. When the wind would blow their roof would ripple and make noises.
I would marvel at all of the facsimile paper weather maps - occasionally they would be hand drawing severe weather watches on a plastic sheet with a map underneath of it. Behind a few more desks were weather instruments. Then in the back room was the radar! The kind of radar with the green screen and a sweep. You could watch the echoes light up and then fade away with each sweep.
Once while I was at the office one of the meteorologists let me spin the little wheel to look up into the storm. He was showing me how hail was coming out the top of a storm. I am pretty sure at that moment I had "arrived" as far as my weather geekness level. Or so I thought.
Until Chris Novy introduced me to this coming out of Carbondale, Illinois. The radio system would send a signal to a repeated and you could hear a whistling noise when listening to a special scanner. If you could get the signal to come in clear enough then you could receive all of the text data from the NWS Office in Chicago. At that time Chicago did the forecast for southern Illinois.
Eventually Chris got it working - but this was not until after I duct taped two rusty old wheelbarrows together and attached a 30 foot pole to them. On the top of that was a little antenna that Chris had someone else pick up for me.
I nailed the pole to the house - connecting the 2 rusty wheel barrows together. It was wobbly but it worked!
It wasn't long until I was picking up the whistling noise on the radio. I then hooked that up to a received and bought huge roles of printer paper. The kind printer paper you would find in a news station - endless streams of paper. A little teletype printer machine would go back and forth with text - it made the loudest noise. But - I would get the forecast and watches and warnings. On a busy day it would be an hour behind!
My mother was NOT impressed with these amazing feats. Especially the time I installed a 20+ horizontal antenna on the house (by her bedroom window). One night during an ice storm that antenna slowly started tilting - around 2 am it slammed into her window. So, that was the end of that. I moved it to the pony barn room - which was about 250 feet away.
If I needed radar then I would have to drive 30 minutes over to Paducah and look at the radar screen at their office or the flight severe station. I don't know how many trips we made over there - my grandmother would drive me. She never got tired of me talking about the weather - or at least she never told me she did!
When out chasing I would just watch the thunderstorms explode from my hill here in Massac County - Chris taught me about the low level jet. He was even able to whistle into his hand held emergency management radio and make my weather radio siren go off.
Ironically I am back up here now - bought the farm back and built my house. Now we have REAL towers - several! Real weather instruments - and all the computer information one could ever want, need, or request.
Now the NWS occasionally is asking me for a color table for their radar.
We have come a long long way - I don't think those who have always had internet will ever appreciate what all of us went through - back in the day!
Did I mention I received StormTrack in the mail every few months? Hand drawn images and cartoons. lol Great memories.
joel ewing
EF5
How did we get data in the "old" days?
This is for real: I would buy a dozen donuts and literally ring the doorbell at the local NWS office, and offer to "trade" them for a little info. It worked beautifully!! I don't know of any other chaser that did this, and it tended to separate me from the masses a bit, and made it easier to get in the door the next time.
Those guys (usually guys) at those NWS stations would really loosen up with a boxfull of donuts in front of 'em. It was fun, I got my info, and I'd always make it a point to not overstay my welcome. I'd get in there...and get out courteously quickly.
This is for real: I would buy a dozen donuts and literally ring the doorbell at the local NWS office, and offer to "trade" them for a little info. It worked beautifully!! I don't know of any other chaser that did this, and it tended to separate me from the masses a bit, and made it easier to get in the door the next time.
Those guys (usually guys) at those NWS stations would really loosen up with a boxfull of donuts in front of 'em. It was fun, I got my info, and I'd always make it a point to not overstay my welcome. I'd get in there...and get out courteously quickly.
Greg Stumpf
EF5
I did that a couple of times myself back in the day, hearing that other chasers had done so. You must have been one of the "other chasers".
Jim Bishop
EF4
Well said. That quote should be in a book. Just very well put.
Brian Stertz
EF5
I do use alot of visuals these days...but fairly updated radar mixed with some timely SPC Mesodata & HRRR seems to be what I need to lock in on things. Plus I have a pretty good pattern recognition knack that kicks in ...and finding that glorious triple point. Learned alot in the old OU maproom back in the day...fun times. Sigh.
Jacob Ferden
EF4
I'll vouch for the HRRR. It's frightening how accurate that thing is sometimes.
Mike Ridgeway
EF2
Oh how fun that used to be! Driving through the little towns in Kansas, looking for DTN dishes mounted near a grain elevator. I used to keep a list of the towns in the plain states that had them. It was like finding a $100.00 bill on the sidewalk, just to find a DTN dish so you could take a quick look at the current radar. 50 miles down the road and you'd find another....the good old days!
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