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Horrible tragedy shows how quickly conditions can change during severe weather

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jordan Hartley
  • Start date Start date
I did check before posting, thanks. The 70mph winds were not associated with the gust front that hit the fairgrounds, no other damage reports came in with it.
 
Here is the web site of the company that provided/built the stage. They have several photos of the system installed at other locations and at the state fair from previous years. One of the photos shows a previous Indiana State Fair configuration with an even higher roof, but with cross-bracing used that wasn't in place this time.

http://midamericasound.com/?page_id=40

Not sure how much longer this site will be up, I'm surprised it's still accessible.
 
I believe that there is way too much emphasis being placed on the severe thunderstorm preparation/awareness aspect of this story. A storm of this type is typically a very low threat to the public, as are most severe thunderstorms. They happen daily in the Midwest/Plains in the summer with injuries and deaths being very rare. Lightning causes more tragedies than this. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be weather-aware, because they should - but this disaster was not about the warnings or the gust front. This stage would have likely collapsed in a sub-severe storm - which I hate to say it, but judging from the video and confirmed by Jim Ladue's analysis, probably didn't even meet severe criteria at the Indiana State Fairgrounds that day.
 
And I don't think its not that they aren't well educated on the matter, they know what can happen. It is just when they are in a large crowd like that, they are waiting and watching the others for them to move an take shelter. Its a psychological thing about humans that just can't be explained at times. People need a leader, someone to tell them at the exact moment what to do or else they are often useless an will just mill around as they were there. Of course there are a thousand other factors, but that is one that often gets overlooked in the situation. Had the announcer said to run an get in cover they would have (an it woulda been a frantic mess most likely).

Chip
 
rdale said:
And plenty of reason for people to get to shelter without having to be told...
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If they know in advance...

Although I have to admit, my cellphone would be going crazy with alerts, and heck, I'd probably be much too interested in the incoming storm to go to shelter. :D
 
rdale said:
I was referring to your point about the lightning... As the emcee was telling them where to go, they saw frequent lightning approaching rapidly from the west.
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I'm not even sure we are disagreeing. The crowd should not have been where it was, given that a storm was visually in sight, and certainly dangerous. Whether captivated by their environment, (as opposed to the atmosphere :) ) or not, direction with urgency to the shelters is appropriate then. To the extent that people follow direction is a matter of individual judgment. I just think every opportunity to warn them is appropriate, and I do think there is still room for investigation on the question of whether those opportunities were fulfilled.
 
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Let me see if I can shed some light on this.

The winds at the Fairgrounds were clearly associated with the gust front. The evidence is here: http://meteorologicalmusings.blogspot.com/2011/08/fundamental-problem-at-indiana-state.html

However, I tend to give the crowd a bit of a pass on this one for two reasons:

  • The storm was coming from behind and to the left of the grandstand. They could not get a full view of the storm. The crowd's focus was on the stage; after all, that is why they paid to be there.
  • Where were they supposed to evacuate to? I believe it is unreasonable to expect people to leave unless they are given a destination (in this case, a shelter). Before someone says, "go to their cars" would they be allowed back in?

I have a wrap-up posting on my blog: http://meteorologicalmusings.blogspot.com/2011/08/some-final-thoughts-on-indianapolis.html in case anyone is interested.

Mike
 
The crowd could easily see the lightning, and the announcer clearly stated where the shelters were (and they were well known locations right behind the grandstand.) Did you not watch that video yet?
 
Rob,

I've listened to several videos with an announcer in the background and I have not heard one that tells where the shelters were. Would you direct me to it?

As to "well known", you are assuming that everyone had been there before. I hardly believe that is the case.

I have been to the Fair's website and, even now, there is no emergency plan or shelter map that I could easily find.

Mike
 
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