Flying RC airplane into tornado

[David Wolfson]

Has anyone tried balloon launch vs. powered? I'd think:

1. Multiple camera orientations are necessary with both and easier with balloon.

2. Whatever you launch it's going to get sucked into and up the powerful updraft and crash somewhere. With decent design, low lift, and a beacon, you have a decent chance of getting good data and the balloon package back.

3. A balloon doesn't need any velocity relative to the wind field and experiences rather low acceleration forces even in a strong wind field.

4. A flexible (vinyl sheet?) hail cap might protect the balloon against small hail without adding too much weight.

5. A balloon flies stably without needing active operator control. This may be an advantage in the highly dynamic environment near a tornado .

 

[Terrence Cook]

The serious attitude and impressive innovations by some of you lead me to belive that this will probably be successfully tried within 10 years. Perhaps it will take 25 attempts but with the right resources and ingenuity I know it can be done. Both the balloon and the Carlson's UAV are brilliant ideas with the potential for success!

I look forward with great anticipation for the images and results of these extreme but logical experiments. Best of luck to any of you attempting this historical data collection effort!!

 

[Kem Poyner]

rc tornado plane

If you go to Youtube and type in stryker onboard you will see several videos of the stryker rc airplane that I am considering. They are cheap ,very fast and can carry a small video camera. I fly them, and they do well in strong wind. You could have several ready to go. If one is unsuccessful, toss another into the sky. The radio range is pretty impressive. Complete plane ready to fly with radio is under $300.

 

[Verne Carlson]

If you go to Youtube and type in stryker onboard you will see several videos of the stryker rc airplane that I am considering. They are cheap ,very fast and can carry a small video camera. I fly them, and they do well in strong wind. You could have several ready to go. If one is unsuccessful, toss another into the sky. The radio range is pretty impressive. Complete plane ready to fly with radio is under $300.

The RC transmitter/receiver range is farther than you can see the plane at around 2500' which is good. The problem is that the largest video camera that you could fit in the foam nose of the Stryker and not affect the CG would be one of the 10mW wireless pinhole cameras with 9V battery.

I've found the range on these to be at most 600' and that's using a tuned Yagi antenna. Now maybe an amplified receiver could be used to boost that but I'm not sure.

Kem, what cameras have you tried?

 

[Tyler_Costantini]

I don't know how much you can put in a plane but here

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/products.php?prodid=MFJ-8704

is a 439mhz video tx thats 50-100mw i know from exp that will get u a mile or so to a good receiver i.e ( not a tv on cable ch 59)... thats my 2 cents worth... with that tx also it could be mounded in the center of the plane to balance cg...

I have been thinking of doing someting with a baloon for a long time the issue i have is do you try and make a nest for an inflated baloon in the back of the suv or do you try to do a rapid inflate? Seems to me the nest would be the only real way to go..

 

[Verne Carlson]

Hey Tyler, thanks for the link. It's great to see so many of us thinking about aerial systems!

With these wireless systems the advertised ranges are always for a stationary Yagi on both transmitter and receiver pointing constantly at each other which you just cannot do with an RC aircraft I've found. The rub comes when you have to use an omin-directional antenna on the plane and that cuts your range down significantly. About all you can do is beef up your receiving end so I'm still looking for good video systems.

You hit the nail right on the head about the balloon idea. The problem is how do you inflate it quickly once you have a developing tornado? And if you are half way inflated and have to reposition what do you do?

Another problem I can see is that you can't control the direction the camera is pointing unless you have very wide angles or multiple cameras. You may end up with the tornado out of frame most of the time.

Still these are all great ideas to think about!

 

[James Hammett]

I'm thinking at 439mhz a highly directional receiving antenna would be quite large. OTOH, anything at 2.4 or 5.8ghz with decent power looks to be priced at $500+. Digital Spread Spectrum would give you a very reliable signal though.

It should be possible to rig a 180 degree fisheye lens onto a pinhole camera, point it straight down, and convert to rectilinear in software later. That would at least guarantee a good view of the business end of a tornado.

 

[David Wolfson]

I think any practical powered craft for this purpose would need a GPS/sensor controlled autopilot capable of independent intelligence.

The sort of balloon I have in mind is a dirigible design with an on-board motor for limited propulsion. There're RC-controlled balloons with pretty impressive flight characteristics, e.g. this company http://www.minizepp.com/English_zepp.html:
http://rcvehicles.about.com/od/rconboardcamvideos/youtube/rcblimpcamnight.htm
Inflation could be a challenge near a storm (as could be deployment of a fixed-wing!), but the interesting thing about the RC balloons is they can fly for over an hour and moved in a protected trailer.

 

[Tyler_Costantini]

I'm thinking at 439mhz a highly directional receiving antenna would be quite large.

The free space path loss @ 439mhz is MUCH less then 2.4 or 5.8g I do think digital video would be better but i dont know of any cheap system for tx/rx...

Vern.. I have a 439mhz tx and rx that I plan to test in the feild soon. I once used a dualband mobile antenna on the rx and a 1/4 wl stub on the tx and went almost 1 mile. I would think small 30ga magent wire would make a nice very light antenna.

If you have any questions about ATV I had alot of exp with it in the 90's at it was the big think in Ham radio for a few years.

Also I almost forgot I have a 900Mhz system also... and I know someone who put the same system in a plane a long time ago...

The main reason I was looking at baloons is the fact I have no idea how to fly a RC plane...

 

[James Hammett]

The free space path loss @ 439mhz is MUCH less then 2.4 or 5.8g

Good point - especially in a hopefully moisture-laden environment

 

[mrobinett]

Actually youll find 900mhz quite appealing as far as range and lack of signal "ghosting" from reflections. And on 2.4ghz and above the polarization of both transmit antenna and receive are critical unless you use a circularly polarized patch antenna, these are directional, the one Ive used with great success is an 8 dbi gain 65 degree beamwidth patch on the receive side. Then no matter what the orientation of the transmit antenna with the aircraft pitching and yawing the receiver maintains a good lock. But with 900 mhz you get a little fuzziness in the signal but two omnidirectional antennas work fine.
Ive been doing aerial photography/video for years now.
Mike

 

[mrobinett]

2.4ghz and 900mhz video gear isnt that expensive, try these links:
http://www.rangevideo.com/index.php/index

http://www.blackwidowav.com/products.html

Ive used gear from both sources and gotten superb range!
The equipment from them is for people with a ham license for anything above 10mw. But the 500 and 600mw video transmitters will work at least 2500-3000'.

 

[Tyler_Costantini]

check this link out it's perty cool it's a complete solution for RC planes..

http://www.gpsflight.com/Main/users/videoflight.htm

 

[Tyler_Costantini]

I just got home from launching a small pilot balloon into a severe thunderstorm near Joplin, MO... It went really well we where in the inflow area of the storm though we where having some outflow at the surface the balloon went out from the cell up until 250-500’ then it switched directions and moved quite rapidly towards the core of the cell. The biggest issue I can see with a balloon is the fact that it goes up way too high so I now want to try some weight so make it somewhat neutrally buoyant with a drag Shute or fin to keep in pointed in the correct direction…

I will submit a video link as soon as i get home.

 

[mrobinett]

The biggest issue I can see with a balloon is the fact that it goes up way too high so I now want to try some weight so make it somewhat neutrally buoyant with a drag Shute or fin to keep in pointed in the correct direction…

How big is the balloon and how much weight would make it bouyant neutrally? I was just curious, a small CCD video camera and downlink can be made pretty small. I can tell you how to make the package.