Flying RC airplane into tornado

[Kem Poyner]

I have been chasing tornados for over 15 years. I have been flying RC airplanes for longer than that. I have one flying wing jet style plane (stryker)that flys over 80 mph. We mount small video cameras on them and it is a blast.
I keep thinking how it would be to fly one into a tornado with video transmitting back. Of coarse plane would be lost. These planes have electric motors that mount on back with a pusher prop. I would build a carbon fiber cone cage around the prop to keep hail stones away.
This would just be an experiment to show it is possible to do, plus the video would be awsome. Espesially if the camera/cage holds together in the tornado for awhile. Latter planes could be outfitted with unlimited transmitter capabilities. Airspeed (groundspeed). pressure, temp etc.
I know there was an attempt years back to fly an RC helicopter into a tornado, but was not successful. Lastly, I have the equipment and capability to make a large RC drone. Hail is my big enemy. The neat thing is that with electric motors, they start instantley with no fuss and they are hand launched with no runway. With onboard camera, pilot can continue to video tape and fly as a passenger in a following vehicle.

 

[James Hammett]

Interesting idea. It may not even need to be powered given a strong inflow...an RC glider perhaps? You probably wouldn't be able to see much of anything once it gets near the debris field but maybe if it survives you could watch the ground as it crashes back to earth

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

http://stormchaserco.blogspot.com/

Not for sure what Verne's plans include, but I imagine tornado probing is a possibility.

 

[Greg Stumpf]

You probably wouldn't be able to see much of anything once it gets near the debris field but maybe if it survives you could watch the ground as it crashes back to earth

I'm fairly certain any RC vehicle would not survive the tornadic winds, and probably wouldn't return much in the way of useful video as the destruction would most likely occur very quickly. Note that Sterling Colgate's attempts to shoot lightweight rockets into tornado failed, since they disintegrated rather quickly within the tornadic winds.

Where I think RC vehicles could be used with dramatic fashion is to shoot video of the tornadic vortex ground contact, much like the Minneapolis helicopter video showed (as well as more contremporary chopper videos, e.g., Oklahoma City media), and remaining outside the vortex core. Science could really benefit from high-resolution video of the vortex/ground/debris interaction, and the video would have high entertainment value. Plus, you have a high liklihood of flying the RC vehicle another day. The RC vehicles could also be used to film other atmospheric phenomena, like gust fronts, gustnadoes, dust devils, and microbursts, among other things.

Verne's previews are pretty cool.

 

[James Hammett]

I'm fairly certain any RC vehicle would not survive the tornadic winds, and probably wouldn't return much in the way of useful video as the destruction would most likely occur very quickly.

Certainly the vehicle would be destroyed but it should be possible to house the camera and some instrumentation in something solid enough to withstand the winds.

Maybe someday chaser circus will mean dozens of RC vehicles flying around a supercell

 

[mrobinett]

As abitious as that idea sounds, its plagued with huge hurdles. Ive been flying remote piloted vehicles for 7 years and own a part time aerial photo business. I understand what it is you want to do, I have actually thought about it.
Ok, first, you must be on a tornado, actually tracking it visually(I have yet to do even this) Then stop, setup whatever remote vehicle you are going to fly, make a gazillion(rounded off number) system checks to make sure you have video downlink, full control, then... fly it into the tornado? Fly around the tornado? I can usually fly in pretty rough conditions, 30-40 mph is beyond the max wind I would try to fly any RPV fixed wing, heli-forget it! I just cant see doing all this safely.
I like the guy with the rocket idea even less.
Trust me, do what I try and do, chase the tornado after it happens, they are so much easier to find, I take damage pics of the aftermath.
Mike

 

[Kem Poyner]

rc tornado plane

Mike,

Thanks a million for the link to Verne's project. I had no idea there was someone working with this already. Very helpful! Kem

 

[Shawn Scovel]

range issues and such

it would be a good idea if it worked, but not to mention the range of the the electronics (radio specifically) is only what? about 1000-2000ft... I dont really want to get that close per say... also stabilization of the aircraft would be pretty much impossible at 100mph or less even.... Full size airplanes even have troubles at these winds... After that you'll have to recover the electronics/insturments/etc. or take a HUGE chunk out of the wallet every time you lose recievers, servo's, speed controls, motor's, etc... let alone the monitoring equipment... just my 2 cents worth.... But, yeah I think it would be nice to be able to retrieve this kind of data!!

-Shawn

 

[Jerry Prsha]

I have been chasing tornados for over 15 years. I have been flying RC airplanes for longer than that. I have one flying wing jet style plane (stryker)that flys over 80 mph. We mount small video cameras on them and it is a blast.
I keep thinking how it would be to fly one into a tornado with video transmitting back. Of coarse plane would be lost. These planes have electric motors that mount on back with a pusher prop. I would build a carbon fiber cone cage around the prop to keep hail stones away.
This would just be an experiment to show it is possible to do, plus the video would be awsome. Espesially if the camera/cage holds together in the tornado for awhile. Latter planes could be outfitted with unlimited transmitter capabilities. Airspeed (groundspeed). pressure, temp etc.
I know there was an attempt years back to fly an RC helicopter into a tornado, but was not successful. Lastly, I have the equipment and capability to make a large RC drone. Hail is my big enemy. The neat thing is that with electric motors, they start instantley with no fuss and they are hand launched with no runway. With onboard camera, pilot can continue to video tape and fly as a passenger in a following vehicle.

My friend and I built a radio controlled U-Boat back in the early 80's and our issue was always radio range. Water would attenuate the signal past about 10 ft of water and the sub would carry out the last command given until the batteries died.

I'd think that this would also be a problem with a project like this because of the range and electrical interference involved.

Another thought would be a parachute launched high enough to get pulled into the inflow of the storm.

As a child, we used to use slingshots made from surgical tubing to launch homemade parachutes (cut garbage bags and steel bolts as ballast) so high into the air that we'd never see them again. The convection during the Summer months would never let them return to earth.

Less mechanical issues and just a the video feed to worry about. Even then though.. If you've watched news helicopter feeds... Even that would be "iffy" at best. A strong RF amplifier might help things in that regard.

Interesting idea though!

 

[David Draun]

I was looking on YouTube for a perfect example of what an rc plane that has encountered a tornado might do. The one I was looking for is no longer available. It showed an Grippen RC jet crashing into a grove of trees with a huge fireball and an equally loud boom. That video was removed by the submitter for some reason.

But I found a substitute:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8KjCT9msMw

Talk about your "power flashes" lol.

 

[Verne Carlson]

Hey guys and Kem, I just saw this post. This is something I've been interested in for years and have been following other attempts with watchful eyes. The two attempts I know of besides the rocket attempt is the Discovery channels' RC Helicopter and also CU Boulder's Aerospace program had built an RC aircraft with the intent of thunderstorm research - called the TornadoChaser.

The Discovery Channel's helicopter got near a tornado but could not be launched because of the large hail threatening to take out it's rotor blades. The CU Boulder craft as far as I know never got in the air and the website is now gone. The whitepaper is here

I am now on my second plane design (contemplating a 3rd) and also am trying my forth video system (wireless and onboard DVRs are in the mix). I feel like I finally have a viable system and have had encouraging success! Playing with this thing is a blast! Check out some of the highlights (as you may have seen from Mike H's post already): http://stormchaserco.blogspot.com/2007/06/wicked-witch-2-test-flight-1-wow.html

Here's what I've learned:

1) Hand launch and small field recovery is a must!
2) Electric power is a must for fast starts plus there's no messy glow fuel to get on the lens and gum it up.
3) Keep the prop out of the camera field of view, it causes interference and ruins the video quality.
4) Pick an already built model (RTF) that is cheap, you'll go through alot of parts, I'm on my second fuselage!
5) Practice setting up your model and launching as fast as possible, think Indy pit crew. Use quick release hatches, slide on wing sections, etc. Have a mental checklist of switches to flip, you don't want to get in the air and realize your camera is off.
6) Point the camera slightly down to keep some ground in the picture, all sky is very disorienting.
7) Have some sort of recovery system, I use a handheld RFID locater to find the plane in case it get's lost in tall grass or out of site. Also the locator is epoxied to my camera, this is the component I absolutely must find if it gets tossed by a tornado. Glue a business cards to the camera and write your phone number on as many parts as you can. Offer a reward for the return of the parts, some farmer may find them and give you a call.
8) Waterproof your camera as much as possible, a plastic bag at least. It will get rain on it and it may end up in the mud on landing. Also it's very important to isolate the camera from vibration by wrapping it in foam rubber sheeting otherwise your video will be shaky.
9) You must get into the thunderstorm inflow, it is 'mostly' smooth and takes you the direction you want, towards the storm. Stay out of gusty outflow, it'll toss you to the ground in no time and is very hard to fly in!

The inflow is so strong and pulls your plane so quickly towards the wall cloud that I had the idea today to point the camera out the back of the plane and fly the plane against the wind and backwards to keep the tornado in frame and keep the plane throttled up and held away from the storm as long as possible. As Greg S. says I think once you enter the vortex there may not be much to see, the ground contact of the tornado from 400 feet up and at close range would be spectacular video!

Do you fly into the vortex? This is what I've been thinking about the whole time I've been building these planes. I know that if you get in the inflow the plane will have a natural tendency to go downwind and straight into the tornado. It is all you can do at full throttle to keep the plane from going into the thunderstorm. I think it'll be a game time decision when I get one of these planes near a tornado whether to go in or not - we'll see!

 

[James Hammett]

According to http://www.eol.ucar.edu/fps/edoVORTEXII.pdf , VORTEX2 is going to be using an UAV (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle). It will have strobes for visibility from the ground and it will be "digitally tethered" to the ground vehicle so that it will safely parachute to the ground if it gets out of range.

A number of hypotheses critical to VORTEX2 require in situ state observations throughout the lowest ~1 km AGL. The technology that is most suited to obtaining the needed state observations is UAV aircraft (Fig. 3.1). These aircraft have been under development for the past few years at the Research Center for Unmanned Vehicles (RECUV) at the University of Colorado (http://recuv.colorado.edu).

The aircraft to be used in VORTEX2 is a long-available off-the-shelf remote control hobbyist design called the Telemaster. However, only the airframe design has been copied for the research UAVs. To better suit research purposes, the airframe is structurally hardened (to survive turbulence and hail), a much more powerful engine is used than is typical (to allow for adequate power in areas of large wind shear), an engine-driven generator will be used to supply power, and meteorological sensors are added. At least one airframe will be equipped with a next7 generation microphysics imager, developed in collaboration with Andy Heymsfield (NCAR/MMM), suitable to image cloud droplets and hydrometeors.

 

[James Hammett]

...and these guys plan on shooting rockets into tornadoes:

http://www.thunderchaser.com/invaderproject.html

[Edit: See http://stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4402 ]

 

[Kem Poyner]

RC plane/tornado

The Telemaster is a great platform to work with , I have built and flown a couple myself.However they are slow and effected by wind greatly. I am planning more of a flying wing/delta dart design. It will be very fast and not so fragile. More like a guided cruise missle. Not planning on getting it back.
Kem

 

[Verne Carlson]

Hey James thanks for posting the links to the Vortex 2 papers. I had heard about UAVs/RPVs being part of the project and went digging in the CU Boulder webpages and it seems there's alot of broken links and missing pages on their RECUV project.

I imagine they've gone into hibernation a bit while waiting for funding and it seems like they've gotten into some regulation hassles with flying unmanned aircraft. I think that's why they've fallen back a bit to using conventional hobbyist RC equipment since they can keep to the current regulations that govern RC aircraft.

I did find this site: http://ecadw.colorado.edu/engineering/news/cue/2007/features/aero.htm

I think they may have dropped the Telemaster idea since it's forward mounted engine interferes with the 'payloads'. Kem, I like your idea about the delta wing craft. They are much more rugged without a long wing to rip off plus they are fast and have great wind penetration. Plus being easily handlaunched. Most of the one's I've seen are on the smaller size and solid foam so they're a little hard to work a good payload into.

I think the delta wing is a sound design for such a project.