FAA Bans Weather Radio from Air Traffic Control Tower

Even if it comes to evacuating the tower -- why would you purposely restrict your employees from getting a warning? Sort of like saying everyone needs to take shelter from an approaching tornado, except for FAA controllers. Imagine what would come about if they got hit by a tornado and were unable to know about the warning because of a lack of NWR...
 
Are you serious? You are telling me that controllers are not allowed to abandon a building even as a tornado approaches? This story gets more interesting by the minute ;> I'd LOVE to do a story on that if true - do you have a source for this? It just seems a little hard to believe that the FAA would require people in a building with a lot of glass to stay at their post as a tornado strikes it. That's SCREAMING for lawsuit and bad press...

- Rob

PS I'm not sure who told you a control tower can survive a tornado strike - but they were wrong.
 
This is florida we are talking about. Tornados capable of killing towers have to be exceedingly rare. Towers are generally steel/concrete and that glass is thick.


And having daytona approach, departure, tower and ground suddenly go off the air because of a tornado warning for half of the county... and then a riddle cessna smacks into a 767 with 200 pax putting into orlando... now THAT would be the mother of all lawsuits and bad press.
 
I've been watching this with some interest. Especially the last few exchanges. I suspect it should be noted, that the FAA or any other agency (possible exception, the military) would allow for evacuation of an Airport Tower. I don't know this for sure, but I would suspect it's a very good possibility.

A Tornado on the airfield of a large metro airport COULD go un-noticed by the persons in the tower. Limited visibility being a key factor. Air Surveillance Radar doesn't necessarily equate to Weather Surveillance Radar. So given a rain wrapped tornado and plenty of Air Trafic to steer around a thunderstorm, I can see where they wouldn't see something like this.

It also seems to me that most of the Real ATC are already deep inside a pretty sturdy structure. There are generally no windows and no outside sources of distraction. These would be the guys on the Approach Control, Departure Control and the main Air Routes. I'm not talking about the guy in the glass, I'm talking about the folks further down who do most of the "Control". I'm not sure about this, but it seems that most of what they are looking at on their screens is an Electronic Transponder rather than a true skin paint radar. It may be a combination, I really don't know, but that's how it looks to me. None of those screens are set up for Weather and probably wouldn't show anything of that nature anyway.

How does all this go with the original push to this story? In the end, it's the Pilot who commands the aircraft. The ATC's job is to give him the best recommendation possibly and in cases of very strict control, put that Pilot on the ground safely. The obvious stuff a Pilot can steer around. Most often Pilots are giving updates to the controllers so they are not totally un-aware of what's going on. The NWS has a role here as well. Most cases, they are supposed to contact the ATC's and let them know what's going on. Like anything else though, they are human and can get caught up in what's going on and forget to make a phone call.

Would a NOAA Weather Radio help? I don't know. This has the appearance of more a "letter of the Law" rather than the "Spirit of the Law" type case. You WILL find that mentality in any organization. Unfortunately, it seems to be more common in Government Agencies that most civilian agencies.

I've rambled a bit too much here.

John
 
There are a few LSR's in the archives that mention the tower evacuating as a tornado approached, so my guess is they didn't think the tower was tornado-proof... I'm not sure why you think the entire tower should evacuate if a warning is issued for half the county - I think they should be aware of the tornado warning and be watching for it. And this is not confined to Florida - the FAA is a national entity.

- Rob
 
ya, the faa definetly should have a more "spirit of the law" attitude but they wont.

As for any FAA facility evacuating, I am of the opinion that that should almost never happen. Maybe in the middle of the country for tornados, but not in florida. KDAB is an air carrier airport... would be better to keep 2 tower guys in the tower where they are unlikely to be hurt even if a tornado hits, than to risk 150 passengers and crew coming in on an airliner from atlanta. If they run into another plane, they all die.
 
I'm not sure if this is really a serious discussion now or not (about air traffic controllers being required to ride out a tornado)?!, but..... Isn't there some type of redundancy for air traffic controllers in the event that something happens at one of the towers? Tornadoes aren't the only thing that could incapacitiate the staff or systems at a single control tower. No above-ground structure is safe enough to require staff to take a tornado hit. If the controllers die in the tornado or if the tower/systems are taken out, then the planes are in trouble anyway. As for Florida not having a tornado threat, violent tornadoes happen all over the USA every year.
 
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Yes there is... The airliner coming in from Atlanta will assume a standard holding pattern and communicate with other centers if DAB were to be knocked out. They will not run into another plane with 150 deaths.
 
Daytona tower, approach and departure, control a wide swath of floridas east coast. You simply cannot have them leave their posts. You cant just give up on a signficant sector of airspace, that is heavily used, durring ifr conditions, and hope miami and jax centers take over in time. The odds of having 2 planes ending up holding at the same fix at the same altitude is much higher than the odds of a florida tornado taking out a steel/concrete tower or approach/departure facility.
 
I'm not quite sure you are familiar enough with FAA operations to make those odds - but I think this has gone on long enough...
 
First of all, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread! It has been one of the most interesting discussions I can recall reading on ST. "I learned something today!"

I made the 3rd posting in this thread back on 1-22, and my opinion about the topic hasn't changed.

I don't understand why, and I am shocked that, nobody in an airport tower is monitoring the weather!!!!! Hell, shouldn't or couldn't just one person even get on the internet and keep an eye on weather radar.....or.....SOMETHING when there is severe weather? Just one person? For a half hour, say?

There is just NOBODY in the tower who has any idea about the weather outside?

Maybe they could make an announcement to all the travelers inside the terminal:

"Your attention. Do we have any passengers inside the terminal at this time who are online with a laptop who know anything about the black clouds outside the window? If so, please pick up a nearby white courtesy phone and call Air Traffic Control by dialing C-L-U-E-L-E-S-S. Thank you"
 
It will be interesting to see how storm relative warnings will effect airfields in the future. Maybe the FAA will decide that it makes more sense to alert ground control and air traffic control about a svr wx situation if the facility falls in the polygon as apposed to being in a red (or yellow) shaded county where it does not always mean they will be directly affected by the system, or just maybe the FAA will still believe that ignorance is bliss.
 
Nov. 6 tornado law goes before legislature

Jan 31, 2007 10:40 PM

Reporter: Drew Speier
New Media Producer: Rachel Chambliss

Update, Tue 7 pm: C.J.'s Law went before a House committee in Indianapolis Tuesday morning. The bill, authored by Representative Phil Hoy, is the brainchild of tornado survivor, Kathryn Martin, who lost her 2-year-old son, C.J., in the tornado.

She appeared before the committee Tuesday morning, and 14 News was there.

On Tuesday, Martin had her chance to speak before the Technology, Research and Development Committee and plea her case. She wants the committee to vote into law C.J.'s Law, which requires all mobile homes and manufactured homes to have weather radios.

In a small, but crowded, committee room at the statehouse Tuesday morning, Kathryn gave an emotional testimony before the committee and talked about what it was like in the early morning hours of November 6, 2005. "There's been laws mandating that people put up six foot fences to keep children from drowning. There's been laws to put smoke detectors in mobile homes because mobile homes catch fire, and they just burn up. This is a simple way to insure the safety of people in all Hoosier communities."

The director of the Indiana Manufactured Housing Association opposed the bill, saying weather radios aren't reliable and send out too many false alarms; also adding, people are more apt to turn them off before they go to bed.

The committee now plans to make some amendments and could vote on the bill one week from Tuesday.

Update, Tue 5 pm: Tri-State tornado survivor Kathryn Martin testifies before a House committee in Indianapolis in support of a bill in memory of her son, C.J., who died in the November 6 tornado.

C.J.'s Law, or House Bill 1033, would require that all mobile homes and manufactured homes in Indiana be equipped with a weather radio.

Now, the committee will decide whether to pass it onto the House after hearing both support and opposition.

Kathryn Martin, supporter Debbie Burns and Representative Phil Hoy who authored the bill, arrived at the statehouse confident as they appeared before the technology, research and development committee.

Kathryn, in a small, crowded room, gave an emotional and moving testimony of what happened during the early morning hours of November 6. "We had no warning; it was 2 o'clock in the morning."

Because there was no warning, 25 people died including Kathryn's 2-year-old son, C.J. Every one of them lived in a mobile home.

Kathryn says weather radios could have given them the warning they needed. "The only thing that would have woke me up was something next to my bed. And, now, I have a weather radio next to my bed."

House will 1033 would require all mobile and manufactured homes to have weather radios at the cost to the consumer.

Evansville supporter, Debbie Burns, told the committee it's a small price to pay. "What is a life worth, whether it's a few pennies a month or whether it's a million dollars."

But James Keller, with the Indiana Manufacturing and Housing Association, opposed the bill, saying after testing radios in 2002, they were unreliable and provided a false sense of security. "It's not going to take more than a couple of false alarms for people to turn them off when they go to bed."

And would be a liability for his company to provide them. That brought immediate opposition from committee member, Representative Matt Pierce from Bloomington. "I'm getting a little angry, you can probably tell."

Two more supporters spoke on behalf of the bill, Paul Medcalf of Newburgh and Chaplain Steve Holden with the U.S. Chaplain Corporation, who deals with emergencies and disasters.

Chaplain Steve Holden says, "It's ironic that the Bill Number is 1033. Back when we used 10 codes in the emergency management system, 1033 was synonymous with emergency."

The committee tabled the bill and will now work on some minor amendments.

Representative Phil Hoy says, "I think we'll get a positive vote out of the committee once we shape it a little bit. I'm open to shaping it."

The committee is expected to vote next week. If it passes, the bill will move onto the House. If it passes the House, it will go to the Senate in March. If it passes the Senate, it would then be signed into law by Governor Mitch Daniels, and that could happen by July 1.

Previously: Tornado survivor, Kathryn Martin has a message for Indiana legislators. "They have an opportunity to possibly save thousands upon thousands of lives."

On Tuesday, C.J.'s Law, or House Bill 1033, will be introduced before the General Assembly. It's a big step for Martin and state representative Phil Hoy. Both hope to make it a state law to have weather radios in all mobile homes and manufactured homes in Indiana.

Martin says, "Had this been implemented two years ago, I know for a fact that my son would be celebrating his fourth birthday this year."

On November 6, 2005, Kathryn Martin's two year old son C.J., and two other family members were killed in the deadly tornado that ripped through the Eastbrook mobile home park. She has been on a mission ever since to help save other people's lives. "I don't know many people have to die before this gets passed, how many children had to drown before they mandated six foot privacy fences around pools, how many people had to die in mobile home fires before they decided to make it a law that there's smoke detectors."

Martin has been involved in several projects since the tornado. She was instrumental in getting the memorial park and playground built at Eastbrook and she's also working on C.J.'s Bus, a mobile childcare facility loaded with games and toys. It would be driven into disasters areas to help kids in need. "I can't bring C.J. back, but I can surely make his name known and surely make a legacy for him saving other people's lives."

On Tuesday, a big part of making that legacy happen takes place at the statehouse. Martin will speak before the technology, research and development committee in the morning. Drew Speier will be there and he'll have more on this story Tuesday on 14 News.
 
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