Do you need 4-wheel or FWD to chase?

[Shane Adams]

It's interesting to me to see such a big emphasis put on vehicles that can go anywhere, and many chasers' absolute refusal to have anything to do with a "normal" car. I think this is related to the trend of being as close as possible. Years ago when tornadoes shot from a few miles away was the standard, no one needed to worry about always having a road, because there was always a normal road that afforded a view from miles away. Nowadays, getting "stuck" two miles back is unacceptable among many chasers.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

It's interesting to me to see such a big emphasis put on vehicles that can go anywhere, and many chasers' absolute refusal to have anything to do with a "normal" car. I think this is related to the trend of being as close as possible.

I think it is related to reality and not wanting to get stuck while simply staying with a storm. It isn't just seeing things from a few miles that happens when only using state highways(or paved county roads that don't always stay that way to their "destination"), but it is also missing the storm period. I really don't want to be missing views of the upraft base from any distance. It isnt' that it is unnacceptable to me to have that happen(but dang it is close), but that if there are ways to minimalize it, well, then those ways just make sense....nothing more.

Now to get out of this stupid car I have and into something that can largely go anywhere lol.

 

[Joel Wright]

Rear wheel drive is pretty easy to control as long as you're not too agressive making turns, accelerating, etc. Having some weight in the trunk (as most police cars usually do) helps considerably as well. Try not to downshift too hard either upon passing, as that may be enough to kick the rear end loose at higher speeds.

With a good set of tires and some conservative driving, it should be great car.

 

[Dan Robinson]

RWD isn't as bad as you'd think under normal conditions. I chased for years in a RWD pickup, probably the worst vehicle for slick road traction. But, I missed at least one tornado because I had to slow down significantly due to wet roads making the truck feel very unstable.

In snow and ice (and muddy roads on the Plains, basically the same type of traction behavior as ice), rear wheel drive is awful. You can get around, but any hills or at speeds over 30mph are out of the question. Front-wheel drive cars are difficult to put into skids, even on purpose.

I wonder if the gear in that car could be sold separately? That stuff looks like it would be a nice starter set for any vehicle.

 

[Dustin Wilcox]

I think RWD vehicles are great, it's all in who is driving. I feel more comfortable in a RWD vehicle then a FWD on wet roads, I dont mind lossing my back end opposed to the front while making a turn,. I have learned to still keep control by properly manageing the front. As for gravel I feel more comfortable handleing a car at high speeds with RWD but they do get stuck easier. Although RWD cars are easier to drive out of a sticky situation, if stuck in a FWD car you are probably not going to get out if stuck in a RWD car atlest you can sometimes get it whipped around and find some grass or something. I think the best way to get used to RWD and how to handle the vehicle is take it out and mess around on gravel and or on snow covered roads. Now that is my argument for RWD vs FWD but a 4x4 is definetly hard to top.

That crown vic seems like a great car I can speak for the engine it is the same engine in my car, plenty of power and speed as long as you dont mind getting 18-22 MPG :roll:

 

[Mike Gauldin]

I agree you chase with what you have, but I'm also the type that likes to get close and we all know that close is usually no next to a paved surface. When we were in Woodward, OK this year, we had the option to go over 10 miles out of our way on rainy paved roads, or chance a wet dirt county road and I took her down to 4WD and off we went. Since the cell was moving around 60mph, we still didn't catch it on the county road (doing about 60mpg, wouldn't recommed that in ANY vehicle, but you know how it goes. Val Caster ended up almost running me over at one point and later was sort of thankful he was behind us because we were really going too fast for the road and everyone that took paved roads just got plain screwed. But you don't always chase cells moving that fast. I know plenty of people that make do just fine with a 2WD vehicle, but I personally have to have 4WD. I've see too many cars stuck in small ditches because they can't get traction to get out. And for my Police Interceptor, I don't know if I could chase in it, but I know a lot of cops that can drive one of those like the doughnuts are almost sold out.

Chase vehicles are all about preference. Period.

 

[Tim Vasquez]

Split due to off-topic (but interesting) discussion in Marketplace ad.

Tim

 

[Tony Laubach]

I wrote a mindless babble about this on my blog earlier this week. I'll just copy it here and let you sift through the crumbs to see if it makes any real sense. Bottom line, I drive what I can afford!

Posted by Tony Laubach - 1/30/2006 01:40:00 PM
Go Anywhere Chase Vehicles?

I've run two vehicles into junkyards in my short career chasing; a 1990 Dodge Caravan and a 1999 Mercury Tracer. This year, I'll break in the third vehicle of my chasing ventures in a 1996 Chrysler Town & Country. Each vehicle has its advantages and disadvantages, and none of the three are "perfect" vehicles for any number of reasons. However, with the recent (and very brief) quip in Stormtrack in regards to a "go anywhere" vehicle, I thought I'd post my views seeing as I just purchased a new chasing vehicle.

To begin, all-wheel drive is definately a preferred mode of transportation for chasers. Its a luxury that none of my above mentioned rides have ever had. While the Caravan didn't see near the road time that the Tracer and its 40,000 plus miles did, I did drive it enough to understand that vehicle that big don't belong in 4-wheel drive territory. My Tracer saw plenty of road time, and many miles of it on barren, dirt roads. One thing I've learned in the years of chasing is being in the company of other chasers is just as good. Between the radio warnings and a quick pull-out if needed, FWD works just as well.

Now I'll be the first to admit my limiations in chasing because of lacking 4WD. I bailed on a chase in NE Colorado because the remainder of the chase fell after dark and was primarily nothing but dirt roads at night. While I missed the tornado many caught by about 30 minutes, I regretted nothing seeing as I had reached my personal limitations as to what I consider chasing safely. One may call me a chicken; so be it. But the "live to chase another day" takes priority. That and I've had the unpleasent experience of putting my FWD car in a rapidly flooding ditch after sliding off a muddy, hail covered road at 10:30 at night. If it weren't for another chaser coming down this same dirt road in the middle of nowhere with an SUV and tow rope, I would've been filing an insurance claim on a vehicle I owned for less than a year after spending the night out there. Guardian angels aren't something to ignore for storm chasers, but I know for a fact mine has others he watches over, and I'm not always going to get that lucky.

Another similar situation occured on May 30 of 2005 when I was turning around on a US Highway and my front wheels went off the pavement and into the mud. I had to perform a 3-point turn to change directions and I couldn't reverse out of the mud. Going forward would've dropped me into a ditch which dropped four feet down. In any case, 4WD would've easily got me out since I still had two good tires on the pavement. Again, my angel was working overtime as an Ace Towtruck passed by, saw me flashing my lights, and in the middle of the hail and rain, tied a rope to my car and yanked me the foot back onto the road where I could continue on.

So yes, a pair of reasons for 4WD, one more than the other. My point being, while 4WD would be great, a price-minded chaser like myself who can opt for a great vehicle and pay cash for it as opposed to financing a ride with 4WD may settle for saving the money. Afterall, what good is a chase ride if you can't afford to chase!

But money-aside for a moment, is it really a requirement for a chaser? Depends, I guess. For me, no... and why? I haven't hit the level of extreme chasing yet. As in I don't need to be 500 feet from the tornado to enjoy the experience. With this, I'm not required to take a series of dirt (turned mud) covered roads to get myself closer to the action. I can find a pull-off, arm the tripod, and enjoy the show from a relatively safe distance, yet leave myself in a position to advance as I see fit without having to worry about shoveling my way through mud to get back to a road to keep me in line with the storm. Sure, sometimes that safety leaves me miles from the best part of the show, but catching 1 tornado and getting stuck in the mud doesn't seem to overtake catching 7 tornadoes later on.

I'm not a huge risk-taker. Sure, I've dared a tornado to come on get me, but all-in-all, I'm content with playing it safe, and thus, reducing my needed for a vehicle to bail me out. Sure, there will be instances where a go everywhere vehicle would be great, but if you look at my 3 years with the Tracer, how many times did not having 4WD actually cost me.

Reliability, and yes... cost. Those are my two important factors for a ride. Comfort is a close third. I've owned fairly reliable, and inexpensive to maintain vehicles. As a college student, I'm hardly rolling in the cash, at least not enough to spend on my dream car. Trust me, my dream chase vehicle has 4WD and a million other things, but as long as it gets me out and back, I'm happy. I still have to use my own responsibility to insure that I am able to accomplish that. And while the unpredictable does occur (quite often, might I add), its still you, the driver, that will determine whether or not you and your ride live to chase another day; 4WD or FWD, either way, you're in control.

So with that, I say yes, a get everywhere vehicle is important, but when I was presented with the deal I got, I would've been a fool to turn it down. I'll just remain the same chaser I've been for the passed several years and keep my extreme tendencies to a minimum! ;o) Yes, the extra cash to shell out would be worth-while as an investment, no questions asked. But a reliable vehicle with low miles and plenty of comfort for half the price... I got lucky for a third time! Afterall, I have the best of both worlds; a good vehicle and money to chase. That's more than I could possibly ask for.

Oh yeah, I bought a tow rope... just in case!

 

[David Drummond]

Personally, I have driven everything from rear wheel, to front wheel, to all wheel, to four wheel drive and everything from a Dodge D50 pickup (very small) to a 30,000 gallon water tanker for the fire department (you haven't lived until you have pulled around 30,000 gallons of water and tried to stop quickly!) and on just about every surface you can imagine. I'll make do with whatever I am driving and probably push it to it's limits. I don't recall ever getting a vehicle for chasing based on driven wheel capacity.

I did have a 4 wheel drive Dodge Ramcharger for chasing back in the late 90s. The gas mileage sucked so bad I finally got rid of it, but I once had it in puddle on a West Texas oilfield road half way up the doors (and it had 18" of ground clearance!) and she pulled out just fine.

I've taken my front wheel drive Windstars down some pretty hairy and slippery back roads chasing, and they did just fine. On the other hand I got stuck in a patch of wet grass on the side of the road on day out here in the panhandle. Just couldn't get enough momentum to hit pavement, and vowed to never stop on wet grass again without a drive tire on the pavement.

I guess what I am trying to say is, IMO most of the time, it comes down to your driving experiences on various surfaces with a variety of vehicles more than your vehicles capability.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

It really comes down to what is more likely to not get stuck(nothing about handling....or this HAVE TO link of getting close).

Front wheel drive?
Rear wheel drive?
4x4?

Hmmmmm. We'd better call MIT.

4x4 seems the smartest vehicle to have for a chaser....period. That doesn't mean you can't do fine in others.

So the answer is likely, no, you don't NEED a 4x4, but at the same time I don't think you should be stereotyped for getting the vehicle most likely to get you out of muddy happenings.

It'd be fun to see the numbers/ratio on vehicle type of those that get close. I'm sure there is a clear signal that there is an increase of those driving 4x4s in that group, lol...not.

Some stuck examples of mine that I can think of:

April 04 had to get a tow after missing the minimum maintenance sign in the rain. Hit the slime at 55 and got stopped 1/4 mile or so later, barely staying on the 'road'. I got the car spun sideways and then nothing. I just sat ON TOP of the mud with the rear wheels spinning. Front wheel drive might have gotten me back off of that, 4x4 most certainly would have.

April 05 went over hill into a minimum maintenane section of this road. Stuck again....ON TOP of the mud. It took a 4x4 ramming the back bumper of my car and a lot of gas and time to get out of that. A front wheel drive would not have gotten out of that mess because of the hills involved.

June 11, 04 I barely got back off a gravel road that seemed fine before it started raining. Had I not started as soon as I did I would not have gotten back off in my Mustang. At 30mph I could not add any gas because it would quickly fishtail A front wheel drive I bet would have stood a much better chance with a 4x4 probably not having any problems.

June 11, 03 sandhills chase a chaser friend got stuck in the sand in his front wheel drive car. The tires were dug in deep trying to get out and it had to get towed by a van. All he did was pull off this little road to park.

July 5, 2003 sandhills paved road ends and becomes more and more crappy in the rain. Barely got backed off that and had to take a much longer route.

Oct 29, 2001 in my 2x4 rear wheel drive Dodge Dakota. I simply pulled off the highway to park. The gravel looked fine but hell I was now stuck ON TOP of the mud with the rear wheels spinning like they were on ice. It took me 30 minutes of shoving weeds and grass behind the tires to back up about 20 feet.

All these examples were just trying to stay with a storm and all would have faired much better with a 4x4 instead.

Again, sure you don't need one, but wanting one and driving one shouldn't be some signal you do so because you have to be close. I am very paranoid about ANY gravel road now, especially if there is precip or expected precip. It gets pretty limiting and who wants to ADD limits to their chase if they can afford a 4x4. I've never owned a 4x4 and have driven RWD vehicles 6 of the 7 years of chasing....and I'm still saying RWD is stupid and 4x4 is clearly a much better option. But hey I'm biased.....errrr.

 

[Tim Samaras]

Well, for me its 4x4.

I had a FWD Caravan...and got stuck big time in NC KS on May 12th, 1995 (anybody remember that day?).

We were following a GREAT supercell, and decided to simply pull off the road to get some pictures as the storm moved east. We were east of Sylvian Grove (As I recall....), and pulled off to the apron...what appeared to be at the time...PAVEMENT! But no...it was mud...and sunk the front two tires right to the CV joints in my old '91 Caravan. We were definately stuck. What's a chaser to do? Get out the camcorder and tape the monster storm fading to the east.

Soon, a chaser in a white mini-pickup came by and offered a ride to the next town (I'm sorry, but I forgot your name). He dropped us off and I walked into the motel asking for help. This is a very small town...hotel was the only thing around. The lady at the desk made a phone call to the local sheriff, and within minutes the sheriff walked in. "What do you boys need" he asked. "I'm stuck axle-deep down the road..I'm going to need a tow". He piled us in his police car and went back to the "Porcupine on a skateboard", then called his son that had some monster pickup truck that had tires the size of my van (or so it seems) come by.

Next thing I know...me being stuck in Kansas mud became a town event. 25+ other people showed up to offer help. We had the whole town out there. The kid hooked up his monster tow chain between his truck and my lil' van...and with his dad the sheriff yelling at him to do it right...my van came right out. They refused any offers of money..didn't want to hear about it. Terrific midwestern hospitality.

We hobbled the van down the road trying to catch up to the monster supercell and caught the final tornado of the evening after dark. We couldn't drive fast at all, as the wheels were packed with mud disturbing the wheel balance.

Nope...I love having all wheel drive now. Can't tell you how many times it's saved my butt..

Tim

 

[j_scheerer]

Originally posted by Tim Vasquez
Split due to off-topic (but interesting) discussion in Marketplace ad.

Tim

Thanks Tim. I was about to ask someone to spilt this off.

 

[j_scheerer]

Originally posted by Tim Samaras
Well, for me its 4x4.

I had a FWD Caravan...and got stuck big time in NC KS on May 12th, 1995 (anybody remember that day?).

We were following a GREAT supercell, and decided to simply pull off the road to get some pictures as the storm moved east. We were east of Sylvian Grove (As I recall....), and pulled off to the apron...what appeared to be at the time...PAVEMENT! But no...it was mud...and sunk the front two tires right to the CV joints in my old '91 Caravan. We were definately stuck. What's a chaser to do? Get out the camcorder and tape the monster storm fading to the east.

Soon, a chaser in a white mini-pickup came by and offered a ride to the next town (I'm sorry, but I forgot your name). He dropped us off and I walked into the motel asking for help. This is a very small town...hotel was the only thing around. The lady at the desk made a phone call to the local sheriff, and within minutes the sheriff walked in. "What do you boys need" he asked. "I'm stuck axle-deep down the road..I'm going to need a tow". He piled us in his police car and went back to the "Porcupine on a skateboard", then called his son that had some monster pickup truck that had tires the size of my van (or so it seems) come by.

Next thing I know...me being stuck in Kansas mud became a town event. 25+ other people showed up to offer help. We had the whole town out there. The kid hooked up his monster tow chain between his truck and my lil' van...and with his dad the sheriff yelling at him to do it right...my van came right out. They refused any offers of money..didn't want to hear about it. Terrific midwestern hospitality.

We hobbled the van down the road trying to catch up to the monster supercell and caught the final tornado of the evening after dark. We couldn't drive fast at all, as the wheels were packed with mud disturbing the wheel balance.

Nope...I love having all wheel drive now. Can't tell you how many times it's saved my butt..

Tim

I can safely say that wouldn't happen here. No matter what you've heard, Canadians are not always nice.

 

[Jason Boggs]

I will go with nothing but 4 wheel drive and it has nothing in the world to do with "being as close as possible". Like David Drummond's situations of getting stuck by pulling off the road, I have also been stuck just by pulling onto wet grass and mud on the side of the road. I accidentally ran a stop sign north of Memphis, TX on the Happy tornado day and wound up in the ditch. Thank GOD I wasn't hurt but I did get very stuck in the muddy bar ditch. I had to put it in 4 low and just barely did get out with that. I will always recommend chasers getting a 4x4 IF they can afford it. As long as I chase storms I will have 4 wheel drive...It just makes sense!

 

[Jeff Snyder]

I've chased in 3 FWD cars (Ford Taurus and two Ponty Bonnevilles) and never gotten stuck. Heck, even when I was expecting to get stuck on nasty, muddy roads (such as 10-19-05 chase between Woodward and Alva) or in sandbox-type roads (ala 8-17-05 near Pratt) , I've pulled through just fine. Perhaps it is just in how you drive it, which may be the case since FWDs are all I've driven for any period of time.