Marcus Hicks
EF2
I use paper maps FTW
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After witnessing the continued decrease of involvement in the SpotterNetwork staff in serving SN members with troubleshooting issues recently, I have unilaterally decided to terminate the relationship between SpotterNetwork's support and Stormtrack. I have witnessed multiple users unable to receive support weeks after initiating help threads on the forum. I find this lack of response from SpotterNetwork officials disappointing and a failure to hold up their end of the agreement that was made years ago, before I took over management of this site. In my opinion, having Stormtrack users sit and wait for so long to receive help on SpotterNetwork issues on the Stormtrack forums reflects poorly not only on SpotterNetwork, but on Stormtrack and (by association) me as well. Since the issue has not been satisfactorily addressed, I no longer wish for the Stormtrack forum to be associated with SpotterNetwork.
I apologize to those who continue to have issues with the service and continue to see their issues left unaddressed. Please understand that the connection between ST and SN was put in place long before I had any say over it. But now that I am the "captain of this ship," it is within my right (nay, duty) to make adjustments as I see necessary. Ending this relationship is such an adjustment.
For those who continue to need help, I recommend navigating a web browswer to SpotterNetwork's About page, and seeking the individuals listed on that page for all further inquiries about SpotterNetwork.
From this moment forward, the SpotterNetwork sub-forum has been hidden/deleted and there will be no assurance that any SpotterNetwork issues brought up in any of Stormtrack's other sub-forums will be addressed. Do not rely on Stormtrack for help with SpotterNetwork issues.
Sincerely, Jeff D.
Bob Hartig
EF5
Thanks for this discussion, folks. On the way back from South Dakota, I had time to contemplate what had happened and worked myself up into a pretty good lather against DeLorme. But some good points have been raised here. I guess there's no easy solution other than to develop one's situational awareness. Hmmph. Street Atlas: can't live with it, can't live without it.
For me, the take-away value is, think twice about using a dirt road as an escape route in an area you're not familiar with--at least, west of the Mississippi. I trust backroads in the Great Lakes, but the ones out West are unpredictable, as is mapping software. The pointer about looking for telephone poles is a good one.
Henceforth, in unfamiliar territory I will likely advocate for paved road in situations where safety could be compromised. I doubt it'll take much persuading, since I think the other guys are going to be of the same mind.
For me, the take-away value is, think twice about using a dirt road as an escape route in an area you're not familiar with--at least, west of the Mississippi. I trust backroads in the Great Lakes, but the ones out West are unpredictable, as is mapping software. The pointer about looking for telephone poles is a good one.
Henceforth, in unfamiliar territory I will likely advocate for paved road in situations where safety could be compromised. I doubt it'll take much persuading, since I think the other guys are going to be of the same mind.
Shawn Rutherford
Just a quick note... there once was a road running THROUGH my parent's ranch... like 75 years ago but it was washed out in the early 60's from heavy rains (hurricane)... the county decided to just stop the road at our gate and we maintained the short section that led to our house.
There are some maps today, that still show that road going through our property. I think some mapping companies get a little too proactive by looking for anything that differentiates them from others... even if it's older data.
If you happen to make that trip through our ranch, you will end up 3 feet deep in a creek.
shawn
There are some maps today, that still show that road going through our property. I think some mapping companies get a little too proactive by looking for anything that differentiates them from others... even if it's older data.
If you happen to make that trip through our ranch, you will end up 3 feet deep in a creek.
shawn
Gene Moore
EF3
Delorme Street Atlas software is full mistakes, one a few years ago showed a bridge just around a turn....it was not there and I almost drove off an embankment. The bridge has been demo'ed and a new by-pass was built, that too was not on the map! Those huge mistakes are fortunately not that common, but showing paved or hard surface roads that are actually mud are common errors. The reason, they use satellite images to find farm roads and that method won't differentiate between rock and dirt. Still, with all its warts Street Atlas beats fumbling with a paper map on obscure back roads. To get in front of a fast moving vortex using Street Atlas is risky. I did find that Street Atlas software runs much better on a multi-core processor.
James Hammett
EF4
I've heard MS Streets & Trips uses data from Navteq and you can submit corrections here: http://mapreporter.navteq.com/dur-web-external/secured/submitDur.do
Robert Edmonds
EF5
Thought this was relevant for the discussion here, I wonder if Allstate covers driving into farm fields...
Robert Rohloff
EF3
Robert, That was worth a big laugh, more than once I had to stop someone going the wrong way on a one way street and they said the GPS told them to do it...........
Mark Ellinwood
EF2
Thanks for bumping this thread... sounds like I'll be making a trip to AAA for some maps to use as backup!
Jason Foster
I'll be picking up a copy of the 2011 version before too long. By the looks there are LARGE leaps forward in the layout and usability, including...using aerial imagery, which is the kind of thing that will greatly enhance the accuracy of some of the errors in the data GIS info.
However, some of the mistakes I'm seeing with some chasers depending too much on the software is growing. While I've decided going back to paper maps is NOT the way to go, having them as a back-up is valuable. I just have to slowly grow my collection again (I have my 90s editions to a friend).
I think certain situations are not avoidable, but one thing is true is the latest software will likely have the most up-to-date GIS data. But it also may depend on the company itself and how they purchase and implement the data they get. It does take quite a bit of time to cover so much area with great accuracy. Also remember that in the central US, the population density tends to mean that companies are not likely to put the resources in to cover a lower ROI. We've seen this with cell companies already.
I for one will be sticking with DeLorme and am in need of an upgrade (I'm still on 2006 edition....which works just find "most" of the time).
One key point I'll end the post with "leave yourself and out". Don't EXPECT the map to be 100% right. I know it's been said before but I'm saying it again.
However, some of the mistakes I'm seeing with some chasers depending too much on the software is growing. While I've decided going back to paper maps is NOT the way to go, having them as a back-up is valuable. I just have to slowly grow my collection again (I have my 90s editions to a friend).
I think certain situations are not avoidable, but one thing is true is the latest software will likely have the most up-to-date GIS data. But it also may depend on the company itself and how they purchase and implement the data they get. It does take quite a bit of time to cover so much area with great accuracy. Also remember that in the central US, the population density tends to mean that companies are not likely to put the resources in to cover a lower ROI. We've seen this with cell companies already.
I for one will be sticking with DeLorme and am in need of an upgrade (I'm still on 2006 edition....which works just find "most" of the time).
One key point I'll end the post with "leave yourself and out". Don't EXPECT the map to be 100% right. I know it's been said before but I'm saying it again.
Rob H
EF5
Since a few people have been saying they will be sticking with older maps, I wanted to point out that since 2008, the Obama administration dumped a ton of money into state projects which largely happen to be freeway construction. Last year, we went through several areas that had entire sections of roads re-routed and exits being blocked and created in different places. So 2011 might be a good upgrade to consider.
T.J. Tobler
One thing to note on the Dakota's incident the only computer based mapping solution that showed the road ending was google maps not sure about earth but i would imagine its from the same database. How they knew it was no longer there i do not know i would assume use of satellite imagery they were able to determine the road was not there. Since then i have made a personal webpage using the google maps api to overlay my gps positioning as well as have a crude directions UI with that i use Delorme as well as paper maps.
More or less as chasers whether we like it or not we are very dependent on maps to take us places we have never been and may never go again. Often times on roads that even locals only rarely use, its just the nature of our hobby. The only way to stay one hundred percent out of harms way is to well, stay home... Since none of us sees that as a choice well you just have to put yourself in the best situation by using varied sources of information and your own situational awareness to avoid such circumstances.
Lets face it even though the people could have been hurt in South Dakota none of em were partially from luck but mostly because of their knowledge of weather. They ran out of road so rather than die they went south through a field, they did get stuck but they also made it just far enough to be out of harms way and really that's all that matters. I'm sure they all would've much rather not had to make that monetarily costly decision but when you put yourself into dangerous situations that is the nature of the beast. You have to make quick decisions that will often times be the difference between life and death and clearly they made the best possible decision. Your wits and intelligence is your best ally in these situations but they can only be as good as the training you have. To me that is the most dangerous part about the fad of chasing most of the people on the bandwagon don't have a care in the world, they just want to see storms... But that's a topic for a whole other thread.
More or less as chasers whether we like it or not we are very dependent on maps to take us places we have never been and may never go again. Often times on roads that even locals only rarely use, its just the nature of our hobby. The only way to stay one hundred percent out of harms way is to well, stay home... Since none of us sees that as a choice well you just have to put yourself in the best situation by using varied sources of information and your own situational awareness to avoid such circumstances.
Lets face it even though the people could have been hurt in South Dakota none of em were partially from luck but mostly because of their knowledge of weather. They ran out of road so rather than die they went south through a field, they did get stuck but they also made it just far enough to be out of harms way and really that's all that matters. I'm sure they all would've much rather not had to make that monetarily costly decision but when you put yourself into dangerous situations that is the nature of the beast. You have to make quick decisions that will often times be the difference between life and death and clearly they made the best possible decision. Your wits and intelligence is your best ally in these situations but they can only be as good as the training you have. To me that is the most dangerous part about the fad of chasing most of the people on the bandwagon don't have a care in the world, they just want to see storms... But that's a topic for a whole other thread.
Adam Lucio
EF5
Good post from TJ since the field incident keeps getting brought up and I was involved.
As far as maps go, everyone knows they are not 100% accurate, but there is no way to know when a road isn't actually there. Its just a gamble everytime. You can have a nice route planned and a tree can block your path, there can be downed powerlines, large debris or even an Amish person riding in a buggy.
I think no matter what map system you choose to use there are going to be a small percentage of errors. Yea, going old school with paper maps from 1995 might make a person feel like they are the all important old school chaser whos down with the hardcore techniques of the true die hard non noob chaser, but if your main concern is not being "Delormed" then the best thing to do is keep the maps updated and current.
As far as maps go, everyone knows they are not 100% accurate, but there is no way to know when a road isn't actually there. Its just a gamble everytime. You can have a nice route planned and a tree can block your path, there can be downed powerlines, large debris or even an Amish person riding in a buggy.
I think no matter what map system you choose to use there are going to be a small percentage of errors. Yea, going old school with paper maps from 1995 might make a person feel like they are the all important old school chaser whos down with the hardcore techniques of the true die hard non noob chaser, but if your main concern is not being "Delormed" then the best thing to do is keep the maps updated and current.
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That is one possibility. Another (probably more likely) possibility is that someone contributed the information about a needed change and they researched the report and agreed. I have done this with Google Maps and the process does work (it can take a few months for them to act on the report, but, they do).
Keith Wilson
EF2
I figure that this road has been plowed under, though it is one that many would not have chosen anyway 
Bob Hartig
EF5
What Scott said. I was among those who wound up trapped down the Road of Death out there in South Dakota. My team was using SA 2010; others were using MS Streets & Trips. Both maps got people in trouble. A few days later, after cooling down, I realized that there was no way DeLorme could have known that a farmer had decided to convert our escape route into a wheat field. The only people who could possibly have known would have been locals, or maybe someone equipped with a VERY current, detailed county map--and seriously, who's gonna have one of those? Mapping software is flawed, and I guess if I learned anything from that incident, it's that I and my team mates may need to be a bit more cautious about taking dirt roads in unfamiliar territory. This one looked great to begin with, but it degraded the second mile down, and then came the discovery that put a smile of delight on everyone's face. The map couldn't have depicted any of that.
I will say, though, that DeLorme is certainly guilty as charged of some crazy inaccuracies that are less excusable, and I'm not impressed with their commitment to staying current. However, I probably would find myself making the same complaint about S&T if I made the switch.
