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can anyone tell me what this is ?
- Thread starter Howard Robinson
- Start date
Ken Johnson
EF1
Looks like it could be some type of outflow bndry.John Massura
EF1
WAG looking at the images, it's tough to say without any motion. The satellite image was about 5 hours before the pictures, so it's a bit misleading.
I think it may be some sort of downward motion at the mid-levels, similar to mammatus. From the first picture the clouds in question are near the rain area, and with some pretty high bases, I would think it's some sort of downdraft associated feature. Reading page 12, it seems these may be some gust front/outflow feature. However, Joplin would be near the backedge of the complex by the time the pics were taken.
Can't say I've ever seen anything like it though.
Scott Olson
EF5
We had another thread with what appears to be the same type of clouds. I believe these could be called cumulonimbus mammatus with undulatus wave forms.
mikedeason
EF5
Steven Williams
EF2
I didn't see the picture in the first link. But the pic in the above link does not look to be a mammatus form.
Mammatus is a form of precipitation in the sense that it is fall out from the cloud. This is not what we are seeing in the picture.
I think this is the best explanation. Does look very much like the cloud seen around a gust front. I believe turbulence and conflicting airmass types are the cause of this.
Joey Ketcham
One of the meteorologists at a local TV station sent pictures of that to the SPC, they replied back calling it Lenticular Mammatus clouds.Steven Williams
EF2
Actually I have only now just viewed the photos on the original link for this thread. Fascinating pictures. I have changed my opinion and don't disagree with calling it mammatus.
Andrea Griffa
EF5
Guys are you sure this is not a digital effect? I would not bet on it....
The definition is too much perfect...mmm
Jason Persoff
EF3
I like the idea that they are very broad mammatus. What I seem to see is undulations in a background of laminar turbulence. I thought lenticular clouds were more commonly an orographic feature, but if you ignore the undulations in the cloudes, you see these laminar lines in the clouds such as you'd expect from lenticular clouds.
While I agree with another poster that these have the appearance of a gust front's underbelly, the limited views I see show these not to be associated with a shelf cloud that I can identify and the undulations appear to descend much lower than one would expect from the "boiling sky" of a shelf.
Without video, it is difficult to interpret what we're seeing. But I certainly wouldn't mind a storm generating some of those for me to see sometimeMike Johnston
EF5
The last time this kind of feature was discussed (I recall observed around the Joplin, MO / Pittsburg, KS area), we had some discussion and disagreement. After looking through several web sites on this topic, I actually concur with calling this lenticular mammatus. Although lenticular clouds are commonly an orographic feature, as I understand they don't necessarily have to be. Also, this type of phenomenon is sometimes associated with pressure undulations caused by gravity waves -- which I recall were visible on satellite that day around Joplin.Dave Kaplow
EF4
I think this picture and this one give more of a clue as to where in the storm these are occurring. It appears to be some strange kind of gust front, with the "undulatus" (or whatever) happening right behind it. Maybe it's a strong outflow boundary interacting with a storm? I dunno, definitely weird. I have seen similar formations behind gust fronts in the past, although nothing quite this intense.
I don't know that I like the "lenticular mammatus" designation, as they look neither lenticular nor particularly mamma-like, but who am I to argue with the SPC?
Jeff Snyder
EF5
I liken it to this: next time, when you're under water, look up (eyes open)... The appearance of waves and turbulence on the top of the water kind of looks like the clouds in the picture. Therefore, my hunch is that the clouds being discussed are occurring atop a very deep cold pool -- the density difference between the warm cloud-layer and the cold (stable) sub-cloud layer may be likened to the density difference betweeen the water and air (obviously, the magnitude of difference in the former is considerably less than the latter). I've seen clouds similar to these before, and, from what I remember, they seem to occurr during seasonably/unseasonably cold days or times (such as action outflow boundary passage)... Just my 2 cents.Joey Ketcham
These pics are very much real! I live in Pittsburg, KS, a town that they passed over, saw them with my own eyes! It was a very spectacular event! I've never seen such a thing.Joey Ketcham
I like the idea that they are very broad mammatus. What I seem to see is undulations in a background of laminar turbulence. I thought lenticular clouds were more commonly an orographic feature, but if you ignore the undulations in the cloudes, you see these laminar lines in the clouds such as you'd expect from lenticular clouds.
While I agree with another poster that these have the appearance of a gust front's underbelly, the limited views I see show these not to be associated with a shelf cloud that I can identify and the undulations appear to descend much lower than one would expect from the "boiling sky" of a shelf.
Without video, it is difficult to interpret what we're seeing. But I certainly wouldn't mind a storm generating some of those for me to see sometime
That was the name provided to the local TV Met... Steve Runnels at the SGF NWS called them "Cumulonimbus Mammatus with undulatus wave forms"
I do have a video of it, and pictures!
http://www.kschaser.com/lenmammatus.htmlSimilar threads
