Aircraft and tornados

[Mike Birbeck]

As a UK based pilot, I was wondering how many chasers out there are registered pilots (either commercial or private).

Question arises as I have been reviewing YouTube video and some of the best US footage seems to come from news agencies using helicopters to get close to the action, far too close in my opinion.

My only experience of coming within 10 nautical miles of a low topped supercell over the Irish Sea was one of light to moderate turbulence (I was flying a light twin).

Bringing a helicopter into a 1 to 2 mile radius of a mesocyclone or an active tornado seems a recipe for severe to violent turbulence with the concomitant risk of overstressing the airframe or even worse!

I enclose two links to European cases of aircraft tornado encounters (the latter case involves a helicopter and a waterspout while the former resulted in a fatal commercial crash in Holland).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLM_Cityhopper_Flight_431

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/august_2003/as332l_023429.cfm

I’d be interested to hear the thoughts of all pilots/chasers out there.

 

[Billy Griffin]

I have my private pilot's license. I'm checked off only on a Cessna 150/152, 170/172, and a Piper Cherokee.

As you well know, and as far as your discussion of uses of rotocraft for weather coverage, rotocraft (in this case, helicopters) aren't as susceptible to wind shear effects as fixed wing aircraft, and have a much easier time of flying slowly into and around the area of the storm where winds/precip may not be as severe.

At the same time, however, I think these pilots local media are using here are just about the most skilled as you could possibly find. That's not to say it hasn't crossed my mind the "what if's" - lightning, hail, turbulence, etc. All in all, I'm not sure I'd want to even be in the air with thunderstorms around... it does go against all flight training. But still, I think these guys here do an outstanding job and they don't get the credit they deserve. As for me, don't count on me jumping into a 172 and taking a joy flight in and around a thunderstorm! I'm not as dumb as I look! ;-)

Good topic, Mike! I hope some others will chime in here on their thoughts, experiences, etc.

 

[Mike Birbeck]

Aircraft and tornadoes (rotorcraft)

Billy, you make an interesting and accurate point about the ability of rortorcraft to handle wind shear in the air better than an equivalent powered (and sized) fixed wing aircraft. Still, like you (and I don't have a helicopter rating) I tend to be very wary of Cb's of any kind.

I wonder what the FAA and or insurers would make of a helicopter mishap within close proximity to a tornado where it could be proved that the commander of the aircraft had intentionally placed his or her aircraft there!

As you say though, these helicopter pilots are good and obviously clearly understand the morphology of supercalls. I am sure a reasonable strong RFD would be bad news for a helicopter so I guess these guys have to constnantly aware of the atomospheric dynamics and the movement of the storm. Not for the faint hearted I am sure!

 

[John Diel]

Though not a pilot, I was a flight medic for several years and did learn a lot about flight systems. I've flown around many a thunderstorm in New Mexico in the right seat on single pilot/medic missions. And there were a few times where the pucker factor was rather intense.

Obviously, a helicopter is somewhat more stable around thunderstorms and wind shear. Most media pilots are military trained and have many thousands of hours flying these aircraft in adverse conditions. Another thing to remember, most of the aircraft are equipped with some very high power video equipment. Much of the equipment is military derived as well. It's not usually a cameraman hanging out the side of the helicopter with a camera. It's a high magnification and gyrostabilized system that you are getting your video from.

Pilots are aware of the weather formations around them and constantly being updated by both the station and FAA. It also seems as most pilots stay about 5 miles away from the actual vortex. The pilot is also piloting the aircraft watching for other air hazards as well as the weather. He is not running the video, or doing the reporting.

The old saying applies, there are old pilots, there are bold pilots, there aren't many old, bold pilots though. There's also the old saying from us rotorheads... Choppers DO NOT fly. They BEAT the air into submission!

 

[B Ozanne]

I was going to say, they use some high powered zoom lenses so they likely aren't as close as you think.

 

[Mike Birbeck]

Commercial viability of choppers as chase vehicles!

I guess all the high tech photographic equipment and stabilisation accounts for the good quality of tornado video I have seen on YouTube.

Now I wonder what the prospects are for a commercial venture using helicopters to fly chasers into the right area to view tornadoes?

 

[John Diel]

At appox. $250 / hour, well....

However, I would almost bet you could find someone that would pay that amount. Of course you won't be able to chase thousands of miles, limited to an "on-call" basis (Unless you can convince your client to be a wing wiper), daylight hours only and within "X" miles of your base.

However, this could be offset with "Curb Pickup" and a shiny set of "Tornado Observer" wings.

 

[Mike Birbeck]

Curb pick up.

John I like the idea of curb pick up. Seasoned road chasers could call the choppers in when those forecasts go slightly wrong and they find themselves "X" miles from the action and night is closing in too fast to reach those pesky cells by road.

Company mission statement:

"Just ring "Tornadoes-R-Us" and our choppers will pick you up and fly you quickly and efficiently (and very expensively) to where you need to be. No supercell to big for our experienced pilots. We truly are the Tornado mobile." .

Now where to set up base? Sixty miles from Witchita perhaps!

 

[MClarkson]

Combine a stormscope(lightning detection) with a satellite radar downlink, and a pair of well trained eyes and I say its pretty safe. I dont think their risk is any more than the average chaser, driving down a 2 lane road...


Now my question is how much would you pay for a flight in a civilian plane into the eye of a hurricane?

 

[Jay Bell]

OK...I'll chime in again...

As a commercial airline pilot, I can assure you, Rotorcraft are every bit as vulnerable to the effects of the atmosphere around TRWs as are fixed wing. Rotorcraft do handle horizontal wind shear a little better than fixed wing, but the primary danger around Cbs, is the risk of microburst activity. If a microburst can down an L-1011 in DFW at maximum thrust (Delta flight 191), a helicopter is no match. Remeber the rotor of a helicopter acts as a wing, which will have the same loss of lift in the downward rush of air in a microburst. I have experienced 2 microbursts in aircraft in my career. The first on approach to DFW and the second on takeoff from Grand Rapids Michigan. There is definitely a pucker factor involved. Unfortunately in the airline world, we must operate in these environments, however, we go out of our way to keep our distance as well as possible. The main thing ANY pilot must understand is that a microburst can develop VERY suddenly, and with little to no visible indication...even out of a developing cumulus. My hope is that we never have a tragedy involving a news helicopter around a storm, but I am afraid, in the weather war race, it may well happen.

Back to lurking around...

 

[Alexandre Aguiar]