Abuse of NOAA Weather Radio (all hazards)

[Dennis Sherrod]

I personally think the idea is good for the Amber Alert to go off for a child that is or may be in danger. Any means to save a child's life is worthwhile and our interrupted sleep is a small cost to pay.
As far as waking me up, well, I guess I would listen to what the alert is for and then reset it, if it does not require any attention from me right then. As far as certain hours for it to go off, what about the people that don't sleep at night because of shift work?
So often we complain about such minor inconveniences while someone else is suffering much, much more than a radio waking us during our sleep. But, one day that alert just may help save someone's life, and heaven forbid, it might even be a member of your own family or friend. Then I am sure there would not be very much complaining.
Below is taken directly from NOAA site:
QUOTE:
For non-weather emergencies, NWS activates the system at the request of local and/or state officials. The NWS does not initiate the contact or the message. Local or state officials provide text information about the non-weather hazard directly to the local NWS offices. NWS offices set up agreements to speed the process, since minutes make a difference. In most areas, the local or state Office of Emergency Management or Preparedness, civil defense, police or mayor/commissioner sets up linkages to send messages on systems such as the EAS and NWR. Non-weather emergency messages include:

technological accidents (e.g., chemical release, oil spill, nuclear power plant emergencies, maritime accidents, train derailments)
Amber (Child abduction) alerts
terrorist attacks
These non-weather emergency messages will be broadcast over NWR when:
(1) public safety is involved, (2) the message comes from an official government source, and (3) time is critical.

 

[Bryce Stone]

Some of you have mentioned being able to tweak the type of alerts that sound the alarm. What you might be missing is that weather radios are designed to serve a public that just wants to power it up and forget about it. The more features you build into a device, the more members of the general public you lose. I fully agree with the comments that it's a weather radio - not an everything radio. The radios should alert to immediately threatening weather conditions only. Anything more than that will alienate the public and result in decreased effectiveness of weather radios.

Edit: I read the message above mine. How does a child abduction endanger the public safety? I support LE efforts to quickly locate abducted children, as I'm sure we all do. But waking up Joe Public at three in the morning for something that not only has NO effect on his life, but also that he cannot assist with, will make Joe Public lose respect for the weather radio system. It sounds like lazy EM and LE management are trying to hijack the very successful NWS radio program for their own needs. If we need alerts for abducted children, terrorist attacks, derailed trains, and the like, then state or federal governments need to launch their own radio systems and let the NWS keep their weather radio system uncluttered by non-weather alerts.

 

[beaudodson]

Edit: I read the message above mine. How does a child abduction endanger the public safety? I support LE efforts to quickly locate abducted children, as I'm sure we all do. But waking up Joe Public at three in the morning for something that not only has NO effect on his life, but also that he cannot assist with, will make Joe Public lose respect for the weather radio system. It sounds like lazy EM and LE management are trying to hijack the very successful NWS radio program for their own needs. If we need alerts for abducted children, terrorist attacks, derailed trains, and the like, then state or federal governments need to launch their own radio systems and let the NWS keep their weather radio system uncluttered by non-weather alerts.

Exactly. I see this as the beginning of the end of NOAA Weather Radio - as we once knew it. It won't be long they will be having live traffic reports - missing boaters (I could see this just as easy as amber alerts - happens here all the time) - where does the list end? It doesn't. The can of worms has been opened.

I was at a NWS meeting, a few months ago, and local emergency management actually said they wanted to start using the TONE ALERTS for bad traffic. They wanted to move people away from traffic jams or interestate problems. They said it would be in the publics interest. The response from the NWS service was that it was up to each individual county to decide what was and what was not an emergency.

How many people even have weather radios in their cars? General public - not us.

Again - the beginning of the end - imo.

EVERYONE on this board supports finding a lost child. Blowing the tone alerts at 1 a.m. for a missing child in Georgia from an Amber Alert in TENNESSEE - tone going off in KENTUCKY. Follow? What is the point? NOBODY at 1 a.m. is going to put their clothes on and look for a car on the interstate. Give me a freakin break.

I am embarrassed to explain to people (with the cheaper weather radios) that they need to go out and spend $50+ to get the better radios that can silence the amber alerts. I know several people with the more expensive radios that CAN NOT program these amber alerts out. Now they just turn their radios off. I don't blame them. People have to work in the mornings and don't want the NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE waking them up for such nonsense.

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

As a more precise and factual study by those interested in the facts of the EAS system operation which includes NWS alerts can be found at this link. The authority of this operation is through the FCC, working in conjunction with FEMA, EAS, NWS, and other various government agencies. These rules and regulations have been in place for years. The EAS system, NWS, and FCC was approved and initiated in 1981, but was originally started over 50 years ago. Policies are being currently implemented that have been approved and on the records for years. Only now has funding finally been appropriated to initiate some of these more advanced features. There are many more changes to come over the next several years as the NEXT GENERATION EAS is implemented and the CAP is approved. The current system and alert radios used now are all going to be obsolete as the NEXT GENERATION EAS is phased in.
None of this is new.
People have the right to say they like or dislike the system, but the rules and guidelines were made by many more people with much more experience and expertise than many of us. This is one of those things we can not change and will have to adapt to one way or the other.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-109A1.pdf

 

[rdale]

"We" can change... The state EAS committee is the entity that determines how NOAA uses the radio system. Some states (MI) will not even air Amber Alerts on radio, others tone alert 24/7. If you don't like it, petition them for a change.

I agree with others who say that those 3am alert wakeups will result in MANY disconnected radios.

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

As a more precise and factual study by those interested in the facts of the EAS system operation which includes NWS alerts can be found at this link. The authority of this operation is through the FCC, working in conjunction with FEMA, EAS, NWS, and other various government agencies.[/QUOTE]

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-109A1.pdf

QUOTE:
rdale "We" can change... The state EAS committee is the entity that determines how NOAA uses the radio system. Some states (MI) will not even air Amber Alerts on radio, others tone alert 24/7. If you don't like it, petition them for a change.

 

[Jim Saueressig]

People have the right to say they like or dislike the system, but the rules and guidelines were made by many more people with much more experience and expertise than many of us.

Experience or not I should have the option to disallow any alert on my storm radio that I should not want to hear. I want to be able to enhance me and my families safety at night with an alarm related to the weather of my choosing. I should not be stuck with a weather radio that has fallen pray to political BS or agenda. I should have an alternative to leaving it unplugged because that will be the only option I have if a bunch of other crap has to be keyed up so as to wake me and my family up at night.

Again I do believe that it can be an option to have the amber alerts on there for people that want to hear them but with that option available to my weather radio I need the option to ignore them at my choosing as well.

Another thing to consider is when will enough be enough? Will our "weather" radio go the route of the "Weather Channel" where we rarely get weather on it because of all the other trash clogging up the "weather" frequency? Just a thought....

Also of note: last year before unplugging the radio for the season I heard one amber alert. It was for a young child being snatched from the post office 1 block from my house. Had the alert arrived sooner than about 30 - 45 minutes after the fact it would have maybe warranted some attention, but the fact it was a family squabble and the child's "father" took off with her 45 minutes earlier after a family argument or some mess like that it was already a pointless alert......

 

[Mikel Shively]

All ways possible?

OK, I think they should blow the civil emergency sirens to wake everyone up as well. Bring as much attention as possible to the situation.

See how silly this is?

I think a better option would be (and the NWS is discussing this) to sound the tone alerts during certain hours. Certain products should not be sounded between such and such hours. There are already some offices that are doing this. I would imagine not a single child has ever been found because the NOAA Weather Radio sounded.

How long until they sound the tone alerts for school lock downs? What about for an escaped convict? Public safety first you know. Forget the original purpose of NOAA WEATHER radio - it is not NOAA EVERYTHING RADIO.

I was not meaning to blow the civil emergency sirens. In order for them to sound, it takes a specific set of criteria, reguardless of whether or not EAS tones go off(In my jurisdiction, at least). However, what I WAS meaning, was that broadcast media and NOAA all hazards radio should be alerted. However...

There is a specific set of criteria that must be met before a AMBER alert can even be issued ( in this state). It takes time to respond to, and investigate the alleged abduction, thereby slowing the time to get the AMBER alert out significantly. This does cause a problem, in the middle of the night. Hardly anyone is out at that time of the morning, and if they are, I know of no-one else that carries a NOAA radio in their car. I don't really know what the solution to the problem is... I DO think that the AMBER alerts should be left on... as well as civil danger warnings, and the like, but maybe the AMBER alerts should be a little bit more narrow in their target area.

 

[rdale]

As a more precise and factual study by those interested in the facts of the EAS system operation which includes NWS alerts can be found at this link. The authority of this operation is through the FCC, working in conjunction with FEMA, EAS, NWS, and other various government agencies.[/QUOTE]

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-07-109A1.pdf

QUOTE:
rdale "We" can change... The state EAS committee is the entity that determines how NOAA uses the radio system. Some states (MI) will not even air Amber Alerts on radio, others tone alert 24/7. If you don't like it, petition them for a change.

Quote it again and it still doesn't change the law State EAS committees determine how a state handles Amber Alerts. What happens in one state does not have to happen in another.

Michigan does NOT carry Amber Alerts on weather radio, nor do they even send a NWS "CAE" product. That's because the state EAS committee has decided not to.

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

In case someone misunderstood or did not read what I said earlier, I agree that you have the choice to turn off any alerts you do not want to hear. Thus, I said what is below;
QUOTE:
People have the right to say they like or dislike the system, but the rules and guidelines were made by many more people with much more experience and expertise than many of us. This is one of those things we can not change and will have to adapt to one way or the other (End Quote)

The adaption and signing by Presidential Order of FCC 07-109 was put into effect the middle part of last year. Any time-line to make formal and official complaints, revisions, changes, etc. expired 180 days from the official posting date of this order which was in July 2007.

Every participating agency and entity must began mandatory implementation of these changes into the NEXT GENERATION EAS. This includes every state EAS program.
RDALE STATED: "The state EAS committee is the entity that determines how NOAA uses the radio system."

I have never heard of a state EAS committee having the authority to designate how a Federal Agency will use their radio system.

With that said, prior to FCC-07-109 coming into effect, each state and participating agency was "recommended" and "suggested" to follow the Federal rules and guidelines in place at that time. But it was "discretionary" to some extent of what was broadcast, but was not "regulatory" to each state that they could determine "how NOAA uses the radio system."
As of the expiration of the 180 days grace period, which was in the last 30 days, this will soon change as the new rules of NEXT GENERATION EAS are initiated as a mandatory implementation.
From experience with people in this field, many EAS personnel, especially on the state and local levels, are not aware of these changes yet or are choosing not to implement until forced to do so. This to me shows a failure on these state and local entities to stay informed or follow through on their mandatory duties. And again, this is nothing new as the current rules of FCC-07-109 were initially drafted and adopted in 2005 and that has given these agencies ample time to prepare until it was signed into law. Every EAS entity had over 2 years to prepare or request changes.

That is one of the reasons I posted the link so that factual information could be obtained by anyone who wanted to read it and not rely on numerous opinions, mis-statements, and accusations.

In conclusion, if people want to turn off certain alerts or turn off their radios all together, that is each person's right and privilege. And as such, each person also has the right to say they agree or disagree with what is now a Federal law. But, the time to petition or try to make changes has passed without massive Federal intervention and years of hearings. Everyone had ample opportunity to request changes or adjustments if they did not like what was being initiated and proposed for law. This is the same with passage of most any laws. There is almost always some form of public notices given if people look or choose to pay attention before-hand, instead of choosing to complain or want to make changes after the fact.

 

[beaudodson]

Now that is something I didn't know. I thought the NOAA All Hazards were sounding Amber Alerts in all 50 states. Sounds like that may not be the case.

 

[Dave Gallaher]

Relatedly, I was driving last evening and listening to classical music on one of our public radio stations (a 100,000 watter) when I heard the familiar three scratchy beeps. What followed was an amber alert for a stolen infant in another city. It was surprising to hear the automated weather alert system break into syndicated programming for a non-weather emergency at another location. Since the station's broadcast footprint reaches to just south of Nashville, TN, just north of Birmingham and to both the Georgia and Mississippi state lines, it made for a wide dispersion of the alert.

 

[rdale]

I have never heard of a state EAS committee having the authority to designate how a Federal Agency will use their radio system.

I don't know what to tell you... The Michigan state EAS committee decided they don't want Amber Alerts carried on the weather radio, and they aren't.

From what I was told, that's why some states do and some states don't. Some states always tone them out using the 1050Hz tone, some only do that during the day, some never do.

 

[Dennis Sherrod]

Relatedly, I was driving last evening and listening to classical music on one of our public radio stations (a 100,000 watter) when I heard the familiar three scratchy beeps. What followed was an amber alert for a stolen infant in another city. It was surprising to hear the automated weather alert system break into syndicated programming for a non-weather emergency at another location. Since the station's broadcast footprint reaches to just south of Nashville, TN, just north of Birmingham and to both the Georgia and Mississippi state lines, it made for a wide dispersion of the alert.

Dave,
That is good to hear. That is what I have been talking about with the activation and mandatory implementation of the initial phases of NEXT GENERATION EAS.
As more time goes on, there will be more of these type of warnings on various airwaves as the mandatory date to start was Feb. 23, 2008.

 

[beaudodson]

So it is almost 1 a.m. and the NOAA Weather Radio sounds (in Kentucky) for missing children in Georgia. A statewide amber alert went out in Tennessee. I understand the importance of Amber Alerts but not from NOAA Weather Radio (now all hazards). At 12:30 at night? NOAA Weather Radio alarm sounds in Kentucky for a Tennessee Amber Alert - for missing children in Georgia.

I have had people tell me that they no longer keep their NOAA Weather Radios on at night - just because of these amber alerts.

What makes it worse is that they sound the alarm in Southern Illinois for missing children in Chicago. In my opinion this is an abuse of what the NOAA Weather Radio program was originally intended for.

NOW we have people requesting that NOAA Weather Radio be sounded for road closures. If there is a big accident on the interstate then NOAA Weather Radio should be sounded. Now that emergency managers can "make the call" - I believe we will see more abuses.

Anyone else have thoughts on all of this? Again, I understand the importance of amber alerts - just not at 12:30 a.m. on the NOAA Weather Radio.

blah

Curious what other people think about this subject.

Dave,
That is good to hear. That is what I have been talking about with the activation and mandatory implementation of the initial phases of NEXT GENERATION EAS.
As more time goes on, there will be more of these type of warnings on various airwaves as the mandatory date to start was Feb. 23, 2008.

Yeah that is great for public radio or television.