07/08/04 REPORTS: Central Plains and Northern Plains

[Bill Hark]

There have been reports of severe weather across the Plains including one tornado in extreme northwestern Nebraska. Post your chase reports here.

Bill Hark
http://www.harkphoto.com

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Drove, drove some more, drove some more...saw sunshine...drove some more...found 'my' boundary that was very sick. At Brewster I opted to go north to Ainsworth because I didn't want to drive to the panhandle. Had ZERO digital access on my cell phone the entire way west, and now sitting in North Platte lib this morning I still have no digital. Not sure what is up, but I'm dataless except for the libraries. Anyway used the Ainsworth lib and saw that beast dropping se clear out in far nw NE, SIGH. If I had only went west and Brewster and not north...and I was torn the whole way north but I thought I was seeing better towers on my little pos boundary further north. I probably made that long ass drive to Ainsworth and back down to Brewster faster then it's ever been done before....lol. 43 miles one and no options. So 86 miles, and I might of seen 6 cars going the other direction during both treks on that highway.

All that 'hard driving' and I hit road construction west of Thedford. I new it'd be close intercepting the cell near Mullen and it sort of was. It was an amazing storm for sure. It lost it's supercell structure as I got to it when that huge push hit it from the west. The radar I saw of it later was crazy. It's bowling balling itself se then bam, it's going ne!!!! I was just south of Mullen as that west push hit and formed this dramatic shelf that curled on the n end back to the west with an inflow band going e. Not sure what the winds were where I was but would imagine a bit over 60mph. I took some stills near the "Dismal River Ranch"...lol!!! Little ranch with this crazed storm over it. It looked like it was going se so I was south of MUllen. During that stay I started to wish I had stayed east of Mullen so I could go east with this now e to ne bound storm. But for sure I was not driving north into this thing. I dropped south for a new svr warned storm.

This storm weakend so I grabbed a room in North Platte. While hitting KFC I could see something pushing north. This was shocking because this nasty outflow had just been rocketing se. I ate my KFC while video taping it to the se as it went nuts. There was actually some fairly good structure on it even viewing from the nw and it was putting out constant lightning. It soon got a hook on it and a tornado warning on it but this was at like 10:30. TV here was reporting larger then baseball size hail and this was somewhat believeable. The TD as I came into town earlier was like 72 which is quite high for North Platte.

Will probably chase the next 2 days out here so pics will be up Sunday or Monday.

Mike

Edit: 11 S MULLEN HOOKER NE 4188 10104 SHED BLOWN OVER, LARGE TREES UPROOTED (LBF

15 S MULLEN HOOKER NE 4182 10104 LARGE TREES DOWN ALONG DISMAL RIVER (LBF)

Yeah that is right where I was sitting. They could of been greater then 60...lol. They were pretty strong. Dismal River Ranch...lol. I kept talking to some guy that was leaving the Dismal River Ranch and apparently spotting. He informed me of rotation to the north as he came back south as it was hitting. He said it was tor warned at the time which I later learned it was not.

 

[Tony Laubach]

I hate my KFC while video taping it to the se as it went nuts.

That bad, eh!

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Leave me alone I'm tired...lol. I am having flashbacks from June 10th while sitting here at this library. I feel like I should fly out the door and just drive somewhere.

 

[Tony Laubach]

Its all good! Think I remember sitting in that exact same spot with you as a matter of fact! Seems like only yesterday! :lol:

 

[Jared Mysko]

Grand Prairie tornado video:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor..._26?hub=Canada#

The rain has dropped mostly out of this system but now it seems this system is dropping tornadoes. This is from the same system that brought flash flooding to both Edmonton and Saskatoon this week. If you don't believe me, look at the radar. It continues to spin like an inland huricane or something. Not much rain left though, but it simply has not left the premisis! Anyone seen anything like it? I think it should have a different name like a northern prairie cyclone or something. I have seen these on radar many times and they always seem to produce freak tornadoes out of low clouds but no "supercell"

 

[Larry J. Kosch]

Comments about the Alberta tornado

I read the news story by the CTV news team about the Alberta tornado. I was rather amused by this quote from that story:

Stifora said the storm could have been what's called a cold-air funnel cloud.

"On occasion they will touch the ground. When they do, they don't last too long on the ground. If they do touch the ground, of course, they can do some damage.''

That's like saying "I'm not calling it a tornado unless it touches the ground. And if they do touch the ground, I can't call it a tornado". DUH!! :roll:

A funnel cloud can be just as damaging as a fully develped tornado. The rotation on the ground under a funnel cloud can be just as devastating as a F0-F1 tornado. If there was damage on the ground, it can either be due to the torandic rotation of the air mass surrounding the funnel cloud.

I think the news team from that CTV station needs to come down to the Midwest next May and get a REAL :shock: sampling of what a funnel cloud and what a tornado is really like... :shock:

 

[Graham Butler]

Re: Comments about the Alberta tornado

I think the news team from that CTV station needs to come down to the Midwest next May and get a REAL :shock: sampling of what a funnel cloud and what a tornado is really like... :shock:

Oh they know the difference.......July 31st 1987

I was a bit surprised with how poorly that article was written. They are known for being pretty good and one of the better News teams in the Edmonton area. I spoke to my grandma today and she said there was a tornado/cold air funnel up there......I questioned her about it with no real understanding where she got this "information" from. After reading the article I now see where she got this misleading jumble of "facts" from. Just goes to show you that only a minority of us know whats going on or care for that matter.

Graham Butler
wx5svr
[email protected]

 

[Jared Mysko]

This is exactly what drives me to try and change the perseption of tornadoes around here. The media has convinced us for years that we don't get tornadoes. "They only happen down in the states" " we get the rare funnel cloud or plow wind which is not nearly as dangerous"

I have a real problem with the way the media treats the weather but what can you expect when the province of Ontario runs everything from 10 000 miles away. I'm refering to the way our media is pretty much centralised in the far eastern part of Canada in Toronto, Ontario. (the center of Canada is Calgary as far as I'm concerned but thats my bias)

They cannot discount the fact that in 1912 Regina was nearly wiped off the map and it took 50 years to pay the debt that the storm damage caused. Tornadoes make me very nervous but having more knowledge give me an edge over forecasters from Ontario that like to think they know what the weather is like out here.

On a side not, the chase team from NexLab/College of Dupage may be chasing this week in Saskatchewan as their July trip begins today. Hopefully they see something big. I'm staying close to home since I have to work again tonight.

sorry about the rant...

Jared

 

[Doug_Kiesling]

07/08/2004 chase

Left Minneapolis late in the morning and drove to Sioux Falls using the short cut route to take off 2 hours off my trip, and then off towards Winner SD.

While in Winner did a data stop and saw the cells going nuts out in western Nebraska. Did not take to long head out to the fun.
[Broken External Image]:http://www.lightningboy.com/2004/070804_00.jpg

But soon even making a phone call to the now casters would soon be out of the question.

[Broken External Image]:http://www.lightningboy.com/2004/070804_02.jpg

But Thanks to Dan, Bill and Andy for pointing me in the right direction to be able to go visual and Dan was right about heading into Cherry County Nebraska... NO ROADS! But a cool looking storm in front of me.


[Broken External Image]:http://www.lightningboy.com/2004/070804_03.jpg

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Lightning striking in front of me as I try to avoid the core as it passed over southern Cherry and central county.

I just missed the massive hail core but did not want to stop to shoot video of the hail on the ground since I was stuck on one of the only north south roads in Cherry County.

Drove to Hyannis Nebraska and got caught some wicked winds that rocked the truck but lucky I was late because this just blew into the road a minute before I showed up.
[Broken External Image]:http://www.lightningboy.com/2004/070804_05.jpg
[Broken External Image]:http://www.lightningboy.com/2004/070804_04.jpg

Drove back north into Cherry County just south of Valentine Nebraska and this Semi Truck was blown over by Hurricane Force Winds. When I got out got film this, the winds were blowing me around. It was hard to get out of my truck and hard to stand up.

[Broken External Image]:http://www.lightningboy.com/2004/070804_06.jpg
[Broken External Image]:http://www.lightningboy.com/2004/070804_07.jpg

All in all, it was worth the trip. Got home at 615 Friday morning. 1200 miles round trip, 20 hours on the road to see some lightning and hail and hurricane force winds.

Yeah, just another day at the office.

P.S. Thanks to Bob in Mitchell Sd. or Kelly or Kory or what ever his name is for chatting while chasing too and giving me some heads up about the area.

 

[David Drummond]

Re: Comments about the Alberta tornado

A funnel cloud can be just as damaging as a fully develped tornado. The rotation on the ground under a funnel cloud can be just as devastating as a F0-F1 tornado. If there was damage on the ground, it can either be due to the torandic rotation of the air mass surrounding the funnel cloud.

Actually, technically.... A funnel cloud can't do any damage. Once it's doing damage on the ground it's no longer a funnel cloud but a full fledged tornado, even if you can't see condensation to the ground. This term is often misused in the media. "A Funnel went over so and so area and damaged houses" etc. I spend quite a bit of time trying to explain this to a producer this year and he finally said, just don't get to technical on the air. :lol: Pretty simple to me..... not kicking up dirt/doing damage on the ground, funnel. Dirt swirls/damage happening on the ground, tornado. All assuming associated cloud base rotation about it of course.

 

[Greg Stumpf]

Re: Comments about the Alberta tornado

Actually, technically.... A funnel cloud can't do any damage. Once it's doing damage on the ground it's no longer a funnel cloud but a full fledged tornado, even if you can't see condensation to the ground.

Actually, technically, a funnel cloud is not a "tornado aloft". A funnel cloud is merely an accessory to a rotating vortex of wind. Caused by the rapid drop of pressure in the vortex, cloud drops will condense to form the funnel cloud. The amount of condensation is a factor of the relative humidity (RH) in the vortex column (which can be variable with height), and the pressure drop. Think of it as a local pressure deficit under an updraft base, and localized area where the LCL is lower. Thus, many high plains (low RH) tornadoes will not have condensation to the ground, and the tornadic winds can exist in the vortex outside the edge of condensation. Conversely, many East Coast and Gulf Coast (high RH) tornadoes may have condensation that occurs outside the edge of the damaging winds.

There is also considerable debate as to whether or not tornadoes form aloft and the "touch down" even in supercell tornadoes. Nonetheless, when tornadic vortices strengthen, the pressure drops, and thus the funnel cloud (or LCL) lowers with time, and appears to "touch down". This can occur even with non-supercell tornadoes that spin up from the ground.


greg

 

[Shane Adams]

Re: Comments about the Alberta tornado

The rotation on the ground under a funnel cloud can be just as devastating as a F0-F1 tornado.

Any rotation on the ground under a funnel cloud is an F0-F1 tornado.

 

[Larry J. Kosch]

Let's not get technical here!!

Guys (and Gals),

Let's not get technical and all whipped up in a froth about a couple of loosely used terms, "funnel cloud" and "tornado".

My point in a previous post was the folks in Alberta probably had very limited, if any, exposure to severe weather. They had limited knowledge and understanding of the dynamics of severe weather. And their fruitless efforts in explaining the storms shows that lack.

They don't have the amount of exposure like we have in the Midwest in May-June. That would be like if we listen to people in California talking about their daily earthquakes, shakes on the 5.0 scale, damage reports, etc. And if we try to talk about earthquakes in the Midwest, we would speak like it was a "shake from Hell".

Granted, there is a blurry line when it comes to defining what is a funnel cloud and what a tornado is. Each storm is different from others in several aspects. One storm could have a high funnel cloud but no rotation on the ground. While another one could have rotation and debris cloud on the ground but no visible funnel cloud. Another could say that a funnel cloud is just an early stage in tornado development. This can go on and on until we turn blue in the face in the middle of July!!

Let's put this silly argument about funnel clouds and tornadoes to rest! OK?? 8)

 

[mrobinson]

Re: Let's not get technical here!!

Guys (and Gals),

Let's not get technical and all whipped up in a froth about a couple of loosely used terms, "funnel cloud" and "tornado".

My point in a previous post was the folks in Alberta probably had very limited, if any, exposure to severe weather. They had limited knowledge and understanding of the dynamics of severe weather. And their fruitless efforts in explaining the storms shows that lack.

They don't have the amount of exposure like we have in the Midwest in May-June. That would be like if we listen to people in California talking about their daily earthquakes, shakes on the 5.0 scale, damage reports, etc. And if we try to talk about earthquakes in the Midwest, we would speak like it was a "shake from Hell".

Granted, there is a blurry line when it comes to defining what is a funnel cloud and what a tornado is. Each storm is different from others in several aspects. One storm could have a high funnel cloud but no rotation on the ground. While another one could have rotation and debris cloud on the ground but no visible funnel cloud. Another could say that a funnel cloud is just an early stage in tornado development. This can go on and on until we turn blue in the face in the middle of July!!

Let's put this silly argument about funnel clouds and tornadoes to rest! OK?? 8)

actually its not blurry lines just is what it is. This arguement is better served in weather and chasing but getting "technical" is what we do. Chalk it up to "learn something new everyday" and move on. If rotation is on the ground under a funnel cloud it has now become a tornado... Period