• After witnessing the continued decrease of involvement in the SpotterNetwork staff in serving SN members with troubleshooting issues recently, I have unilaterally decided to terminate the relationship between SpotterNetwork's support and Stormtrack. I have witnessed multiple users unable to receive support weeks after initiating help threads on the forum. I find this lack of response from SpotterNetwork officials disappointing and a failure to hold up their end of the agreement that was made years ago, before I took over management of this site. In my opinion, having Stormtrack users sit and wait for so long to receive help on SpotterNetwork issues on the Stormtrack forums reflects poorly not only on SpotterNetwork, but on Stormtrack and (by association) me as well. Since the issue has not been satisfactorily addressed, I no longer wish for the Stormtrack forum to be associated with SpotterNetwork.

    I apologize to those who continue to have issues with the service and continue to see their issues left unaddressed. Please understand that the connection between ST and SN was put in place long before I had any say over it. But now that I am the "captain of this ship," it is within my right (nay, duty) to make adjustments as I see necessary. Ending this relationship is such an adjustment.

    For those who continue to need help, I recommend navigating a web browswer to SpotterNetwork's About page, and seeking the individuals listed on that page for all further inquiries about SpotterNetwork.

    From this moment forward, the SpotterNetwork sub-forum has been hidden/deleted and there will be no assurance that any SpotterNetwork issues brought up in any of Stormtrack's other sub-forums will be addressed. Do not rely on Stormtrack for help with SpotterNetwork issues.

    Sincerely, Jeff D.

Using CAPE and other data to predict severe risk and set target location

Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
23
Location
Lawton, OK
I'm not new to storms, and I know how they form and all that. I can read radar to figure out where a storm is going, and to see if there is rotation. I can also look at velocity as well. But, I hear experienced chasers talking about CAPE and SKEW-T, and all the other data and models that are used to forecast and predict where severe weather is expected. I get lost every time I hear people talking about all that. Can anyone explain to me how to use data like that, so that I can at least understand what experienced chasers are talking about? And also, so I can use that data for my own chases- so I can at least pick out a good target area for myself and by myself and so I can make sure I am not putting myself in a dangerous spot. Thanks all.
 
I'm still learning how to use a lot of those models myself, but it's really more for targeting purposes. You want to put yourself in the right ballpark. Once the storms go up models go out the window and it's all about recognition of storm structure and knowing where you want to be relative to the storm, and making sure you're on the right storm.

Being able to figure out CAPE and read models only puts you in the ballpark for initiation. Storm recognition is what keeps you out of bad spots once their up. I'll let the others explain better than I can beyond that.
 
That's what I'm aiming for. More than once, I've gone out to spot and chase, and my target area was WAY off. What I saw on radar was fine, but it all fizzled out. If I had known more about CAPE and the other stuff, maybe I could have put myself in a better ball park each time. I've only been in the right ball park once so far, and that was on my first chase. I'm good on storm recognition, just not the initiation and targeting yet. Any help at all would be appreciated.
 
I think in that case, understanding surface maps, and being able to read them might serve you better to start with. That will help you know when a storm is moving into an unfavorable environment and that may buy you time to bail and find storms that are going into more favorable environments. Especially in your case since you're generally staying fairly close to home.

There are going to be times though when you read the models right and mother nature just doesn't cooperate. That happened with me back in April. I did target further east than I probably should ha e, but the storms were a lot slower than expected and, even though the environment wasn't terrible, no storms were able to assert themselves in my target area, while the one storm that did produce plodded along (slowly, I might add) 80 miles away. So even if you are in the ballpark, mother nature might still throw a no hitter.
 
Chasing only high buoyancy will certainly disappoint you often. CAPE, or convective available potential energy is a composite of parcel and environmental temperature, lapse rates, and gravitational acceleration. What CAPE does not show you is whether or not there will be sufficient convergence/forcing to initiate storms in these areas of positive buoyancy. Many weather enthusiasts will use a "top-down" approach, beginning their forecasting at the 300-500 millibar level and analyze upper-level lows, troughs, vorticitiy maximums, and moving down through the lower atmosphere things such as moisture depth, wind speed/direction, and ending at the surface looking for where your surface low or frontal positions will be. All of this combined will be used to choose a target area in most cases. If you haven't already, take some time and watch Rich's web series on YouTube, it's a great watch.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL3CHz4wbaDgN-UXw79Xnig/videos

Also there's some good info here:

http://www.theweatherprediction.com/
 
Bobbi, CAPE is Convective Available Potential Energy. "Potential" might be the key word here, as you'll see later. The higher the CAPE, the more buoyancy you have. And it serves as an indicator for how unstable the atmosphere is or may become. It is the amount of energy a parcel of air would have if taken and lifted vertically through a certain distance of the atmosphere. But a parcel of air is kind of hard to visualize, so from here on out, I'll refer to this parcel as a bubble. Bubbles are easy to visualize.

OK, so how do we take these bubbles and get them aloft? You need a source of lift. That can be a cold front or more ideally (for chasing anyway) a dryline. Without that source of lift, all the CAPE in the world becomes wasted convective energy. But once you get a warm, moist bubble of air rising, it will continue to rise as long as the atmosphere around it is colder than it is, or until something physically stops it from rising any higher. One of the things that can prevent that from happening is a capped atmosphere, where you have a thin layer of warm air aloft in the mid-levels that acts as a lid and prevents the rising bubbles from going higher. Low to moderate CINH (convective inhibition) can often be overcome through erosion over the course of an afternoon, or broken by strong enough forcing mechanisms. That then leads to the birth of thunderstorms.

Now, there are also various kinds of CAPE. You have surface based CAPE (SBCAPE), mixed layer CAPE (MLCAPE), most unstable CAPE (MUCAPE), etc. Depending on the situation, sometimes one of those forms of CAPE will be more appropriate to use than another. But that discussion would probably be best to focus on as a follow-up. So for now we'll just discuss CAPE in generic terms.

Generally, to have any potential for severe thunderstorms or tornadoes, you need at least some marginal CAPE of 500-1000 j/kg. Many of the winter (as well as early spring and late fall) events will fall into this category. During that time of year you often have very strong dynamics to work with, but only marginal CAPE. Once the measure of CAPE reaches 2,000 or 2,500, you are dealing with much greater buoyancy and a moderately unstable atmosphere. Then there are the days in late Spring where you have enormous CAPE that can reach 3,000....4,000...or even 5,000 j/kg or more. Many would regard this as extreme instability. But often times, you have to deal with the reverse of the situation mentioned previously. In late spring, you often have days characterized by very strong CAPE but with much less favorable dynamics (mid and upper level winds).

As with everything when it comes to weather forecasting, CAPE is just one ingredient in what I like to call "Mulligan Stew". That is where you take everything and throw it in a big pot together. But it is always used in conjuction with or measured against other things, never regarded alone. I have seen days where low level shear would very much support the development of tornadoes be ruined because CAPE was just too marginal to support anything beyond a thin line of low-topped convection that produced little more than rain and some gusty winds. On the flip side, there are days when extreme CAPE is available that you don't even get storms, either because there are no forcing mechanisms to get surface air parcels started on their journey aloft,. or the CAP is simply too strong to overcome. On those days, chasers are often rewarded with a nice sunburn. Ideally what you are looking for is the best of both worlds, where the best combination of dynamics and instability overlap. There are days where you will actually purposefully choose to chase in areas with less CAPE. There will be days when you have extreme CAPE available down in Texas, but the area will be so strongly capped that convection is unlikely to ever initiate. So on a day like that, you would be better off chasing farther N around the triple point that may be somewhere in KS, even if the CAPE is significantly less there. You are constantly having to weigh one thing against something else and you generally shoot for the best compromise.

Here is what the NAM model is forecasting in terms of CAPE for 4:00 PM CDT today (5/27):

[Broken External Image]:http://www.twisterdata.com/data/mod...27/00/NAM_221_2015052700_F21_CAPE_SURFACE.png



Needless to say, it doesn't appear that CAPE will be lacking in and around Childress, TX! :D


I'll try to come back later and talk some about the SKEW-T. I have found this is one of toughest things to try to explain in terms that makes sense. But basically it is a snapshot on the atmosphere from the surface to the upper levels that allows you to look at a whole host of things collectively using one diagram. It takes a while to learn to read them and figure out what all of the squiggly lines represent, but once you start to grasp it, it really helps you to speed read the condition of the atmosphere and not have to look at a bunch of individual conditions and parameters in isolation.

I hope my incoherent babbling has been somewhat helpful. Feel free to ask any follow-up questions you may have.
 
Thank you! That was fully explained, and in ways I really understood. You're awesome, GT! [emoji4]


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