tornado or landspout?

[Cammie Czuchnicki]

I have been seeing this image everywhere at the moment, which I believe was taken by Jim Reed. It's been featured in english newspapers, you tube etc... but I am a little confused as to the structure of it.

Is this an actual tornado or what is known as a landspout?

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2596/3749201900_fcd52c5f5a_o.jpg

Cheers.

 

[Lou Ruh]

Well .. since a landspout is a non-supercellular tornado ( http://amsglossary.allenpress.com/glossary/search?id=landspout1 among other references), I would say it's a tornado. It does appear to be non-supercellular.

 

[Rick Schmidt]

It is most definitely a landspout. There isn't even a wall cloud, and it is very high based.--Rick

 

[Shane Adams]

Both.

A landspout is a tornado. There's probably a dozen threads on here somewhere in the archives explaining this topic.

 

[Paul Austin]

Definitely a tornado by definition, landspout or not. With that said, I remember this particular chase: May 8, 2008. Some will argue an earlier date, as Jim has a very well-known intercept of a very similar tornado in appearance and positioning. Here is a link to a story posted the day after the 2008 event: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Weather/story?id=4819080&page=1 Yes, that's Jim running toward the debris cloud. I think the video can still be found on youtube, but I haven't checked.

What is interesting about this storm to me, is that the tornado had every appearance of a classic landspout in terms of shape and storm structure from these images. However, I chased this day on a late decision. And though I missed the action due to late departure from the Red River area, we were salivating over the radar returns from this storm. It was clearly a discrete supercell based on reflectivity and storm relative velocity images. Unfortunately, I can't find any screen grabs from that day, but perhaps someone here has an archived image or series of the event? I'd love to see it posted. I was able to view a national mosaic series from SPC, but the scale makes it tough to discern. So I believe the tornado pictured was indeed a supercell tornado with a landspout appearance. The problem with the storm structure can be explained by the fact that this tornado was in dissipation stage - it was roping out - thus the detachment from the updraft base and weak appearance. And the dusty field definitely gives it that landspout sweeper look. I remember being rather surprised at the pics and video posted by Jim the following day after watching that storm develop on radar and persist for several hours. I had expected a more classic wall cloud/tornado combination.

-Very interesting storm - wish I had left earlier that day.

 

[Paul Austin]

Perhaps this type of vortex deserves a new moniker: Something like "a twister from the blue" for its appearance of a tornado descending from the blue sky, like the oft-repeated "bolt form the blue" for similar lightning strikes. Yeah, I know, doesn't exactly have a nice ring to it. Surely someone on this board can come up with something more creative.

 

[Paul Austin]

Ha, I forgot, it's on the cover of his book as well:

http://www.stormchaserbook.com/

 

[Skip Talbot]

Landspouts form under supercells as well, in addition to lesser forms of convection. It very well could be a non supercellular tornado underneath a supercell, as it was formed by the same mechanisms that produce spouts.

 

[Paul Austin]

This is true, and could well be in this case. I'd love to hear Jim's account or something from someone else who was there. Like I said, very interesting storm on a 2% tor prob day. Wish I had made it there before everything congealed together.

 

[Jason Bolt]

Threads for the events of 5/8/08 for those wanting to read more:

FCST http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16368

NOW http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16376

DISC http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16377

REPORTS http://www.stormtrack.org/forum/showthread.php?t=16373

 

[Wes Carter]

We were sitting at Baum's eating ice cream in Liberal, Kansas on May 8, 2008 expecting things to develop a bit further south than the supercell Jim Reed was on. We were wrong. We were listening to NOAA weather radio and heard the tornado warning on the storm that had just crossed from CO into KS about 50 miles to the North.

We had been watching the top of the cloud and it did not appear to be a supercell at the time we heard the tornado warning. It looked more like an area of cumulus congestus, but as we drove North it took on more of an anvil shape and developed an overshooting top. We intercepted NW of Garden City and followed it all the way to Jetmore.

A ragged wall cloud shortly after interception NW of Garden City, KS.

Northwest of Garden City, KS

I thought you all might be interested in the seeing the radar return from GRLevel2. Earlier it was a classic hook but as it occluded it took on an appearance like an eyewall. What was unusual was that this lasted for quite a while.

Looking out over Jetmore, KS. We were in some very strong inflow. I'd guess it was at least 60mph. It took down some telephone poles not far down the road from where we took this picture. It was very hard to stand up.

Although this supercell did not produce a tornado other than the landspout Jim Reed videotaped, it was quite an impressive storm. I'd rank it as the most impressive non-tornado event that I've seen on a chase.

 

[Andrea Griffa]

That was an amazing supercell with an impressive hook echo; the tornado developed in the early stage of this storm, I actually am not too sure to say that it developed at a cumuls stage or not; I mean I think that the landspout touched down in a early stage of the supercell, probably at the cumulus congestus stage.
That's panoramic view I did shoot that day:

 

[Cammie Czuchnicki]

Thanks to you all for the links and your points of view.

Jason, it was especially interesting looking at all the forcasts and nowcasts of the day's events. That was an area of the site I was working my way towards as I am fairly new to this and knew the information and details would be quite overwhelming - but I'm pleased to say I could just about follow the detail (with the help of a glossary) and understand why events developed in this way. Very pleased to know I still have a good 255 days to learn as much as I can before coming out to the Plains to put some of this into practice.

Thanks again all.

 

[Bart_Comstock]

Here is a classic example of a landspout/non-supercellular spawned under a supercell that I shot on may 25th, 2008.

Just as the others have mentioned to death, a landspout is by definition a tornado.

Three days before this we had a nice landspout on the ground at the same time of a wedge. I miss 2008
To see that one click here --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr27s-8chZo It is the third tornado in this video.

 

[Adam Lucio]

Bart,

I remember that storm. I too was staring at that big beefy wall cloud waiting for the wedge to drop when I just happened to glance over and see the little tornado.

I remember there was allot of debate on what it was, Im glad your video clearly shows a funnel, theres another video somewhere that shows the funnel even better.