The Present and the Future (In terms of me)

[Tyler Graham]

Hello, Stormtrack users! I have quite the dilemma I would like to discuss with everyone and get some feedback from when they were my age and what they did. I am a 16 year old sophomore in high school. Soon to be a junior after the graduation of the seniors and the summer break concludes. I have spent so many hours on the computer, reading from the forum here, plenty of online sources, and I've bought a few books on forecasting and severe weather analysis and meteorology in general. So here is the deal. The other night I was reading through Tim Vasquez's book Weather Analysis and Forecasting Handbook and was writing notes as I read. I've been doing that with a lot of the meteorology articles and reads I come across. So I came across wind forces, such as geostrophic, subgeostrophic, supergeostrophic, and I just wasn't understanding the concept. So I came to the forum and searched in the index. I eventually ended up on MetEd and was looking at Jet Streaks and how they also have geostrophic forces within them. So it then hit me. Looking at the mathematics, the calculus, the concepts, everything. It overwhelmed me. I take advanced classes in my high school. I take a college class on world history and I am in all Pre-Ap classes, classes that prepare you for a college class, including Pre-AP Algebra 2. But how am I supposed to increase my knowledge when I don't know calculus, I can't solve these equations, and I have trouble understanding the concepts presented to me. I have a pretty good understanding of severe weather analysis. I can look at the Advanced Weather and Chasing section of the forum and follow along fairly well. But it just isn't enough. I want to learn as much as I possibly can, but how can I do that when I feel as though I have plateaued. And I posted my academics on here to show that I take my academic career seriously. And I know to some of you, you have heard this story a thousand times. But I am at the point in high school and life where a career path is in the future. And college is two years away. I am definitely serious about a career field in meteorology. I know this for a fact. I just have reached this problem where it is either "I'm reading over the same stuff again and again" or "I have no clue what I am reading." I just want to learn, to educate myself, to be like some of the greats on this forum. And sure, I may be jumping the gun a little bit, but how did some of you guys learn? At what point in time did some of you study, at what level of difficulty, and how did you come about this? Guys, I really have been stressing over this, I just have no clue where to go from here. I've done so much already, but where do I go from here? Than you all so much for reading and replying!

 

[Ty Traphagen]

You'll have to take a bunch of calculus classes in college. That's the main thing that deterred me from pursuing meteorology as a degree, as I have no clue what that entails, but it sounds exceptionally difficult. However, I know in my high school, they offered an AP PreCalc class for the seniors. You may be able to get into one, as well, depending on what your school offers. We also had dual-enrolled people in my school, taking college classes at a community college, while still in high school. Like I said, not sure what is offered in your school, but it would be worth looking into.

 

[Tyler Graham]

You'll have to take a bunch of calculus classes in college. That's the main thing that deterred me from pursuing meteorology as a degree, as I have no clue what that entails, but it sounds exceptionally difficult. However, I know in my high school, they offered an AP PreCalc class for the seniors. You may be able to get into one, as well, depending on what your school offers. We also had dual-enrolled people in my school, taking college classes at a community college, while still in high school. Like I said, not sure what is offered in your school, but it would be worth looking into.

Well, we do arena scheduling at my high school. I just got all of my classes worked out, and I will be taking a PreCal/trig class my junior year and then an AP Calculus class my senior year. But yeah, the calculus does look scary. The closest thing Iv'e gotten to calculus this year was Sigma notation...and that's not the calculus we are talking about, if you know what I mean. A lot of it boils down to academics, but it's more than the math. It is also the concepts behind the math, some of them not so easy to understand.

 

[Ty Traphagen]

Yeah, you definitely sound a lot smarter than I am when it comes to these things. Just remember: when in doubt, use Wolfram alpha lol

 

[Tyler Graham]

Yeah, you definitely sound a lot smarter than I am when it comes to these things. Just remember: when in doubt, use Wolfram alpha lol

Well, thank you. And you know, I had heard of that at a science fair last year. Do you think it is helpful at all? I've thought about getting a couple of subjects for my iPhone and I know there are a bunch of different subjects, but they aren't cheap on the app store. Do you think they're worth it?

 

[Ty Traphagen]

Probably not, you could most likely find the same study guides for free online. And Wolfram alpha is a website where you put in an equation (or a date, time, whatever), and it gives you an answer...

 

[Tyler Graham]

Probably not, you could most likely find the same study guides for free online. And Wolfram alpha is a website where you put in an equation (or a date, time, whatever), and it gives you an answer...

Oh, okay. And right, but I had meant that on the app store there are specialized wolfram categories, such as calculus, physics, music theory...even sun exposure. Lol. Each one deals with special computations for that specific category, like you said. Thank you so much for the replies!

 

[David Wolfson]

It's not hyperbolic (no pun intended?) to say that calculus is the key that has unlocked most of humankind's refined understanding of science and technology for many generations of students. For a lucky, gifted few it comes easy. For most of us it comes with study and practice. But for someone with obvious intelligence and interest like yourself, it will come. At just about your age I decided to learn "the new economics" and spent most of a summer studying Samuelson's Economics text cover-to-cover.

Back in "my day" there weren't the wonderful, on-line resources like Kahn Academy, MIT Open Courseware, and Coursera. Start at the beginning, don't expect to just absorb it without doing problems and more problems until you understand them and get them right. Even Albert Einstein didn't wake up one day with math stuffed in his head. Until you get to understanding advanced calculus, some of the math you find in your meteorology reading will be way over your head. That's why it's called "advanced", grasshopper!

 

[Jeff Hawkins]

Not being a met myself, I can't answer your specific mathematics questions (those seem to have been answered above), if anything it makes me realize I'd probably benefit from learning calculus myself. But I notice you're a sophomore. You've got 2 years yet...you have guidance counselors in your school...that's their job to help you with some of these concerns, so talk to them too. As far as career choices, at 16 I didn't have a clue. I actually didn't decide on a career until trying several different things a few years first. I found that keeping my eyes and options open and checking stuff out was helpful in picking something I really wanted to do and enjoyed doing. I see people who forced themselves into the degree they thought they wanted, graduate, get a job, and hate it. Sounds like you're really interested in weather, so meteorology might be what you want. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[MClarkson]

If you have not already done this, read the forecast discussions from the national weather service. The SPC and NHC typically have the most interesting ones, but local office discussions will teach you as well. By doing this, especially if you take the time to look up some of the weather data products on the side, you will learn a lot from good forecasters in a real-time environment.

As for the math and the equations, you will pick these up as you go through your undergrad(and then maybe grad) classes. Yes, there is some scary math. But you have years to learn it, and they will teach it to you step by step from the beginning. Its not like you are going to be thrown those big equations on your first day of college.

 

[Ty Traphagen]

Oh, okay. And right, but I had meant that on the app store there are specialized wolfram categories, such as calculus, physics, music theory...even sun exposure. Lol. Each one deals with special computations for that specific category, like you said. Thank you so much for the replies!

Wow, I did not know that! That's pretty neat! I'd read the reviews before buying an app, but I've had nothing but positive experiences with their website. And no problem, man!

 

[Casey Osburn]

To OP, the Calculus that you take in college is not as difficult as it may seem. For me personally, the algabraic part was the hardest, and I'm basically of average intelligence. No question that the math is outrageous when getting a degree in meteorology, but there's no way around it. If you stay focused on your ultimate goal (whatever specific career you are striving for) and dont get burned out, you'll make it.

 

[TrumanBoyer]

the Calculus that you take in college is not as difficult as it may seem. For me personally, the algebraic part was the hardest, and I'm basically of average intelligence. No question that the math is outrageous when getting a degree in meteorology, but there's no way around it. If you stay focused on your ultimate goal (whatever specific career you are striving for) and dont get burned out, you'll make it.

I was in the same boat, I just kept plugging at it, and I wound up (for a time) being a math professor.

This happened 20 years after some ^@#$%& eighth grade teacher told me that I "just don't have the aptitude for mathematics".

Tyler, I liked your use of the word "plateau". It reminded me of something a Track Coach told me once.

If there is a goal you want to reach, just keep going. You WILL hit plateaus along the way.
You get to a level where you just can't seem to get any better.
Just Remember -- its a plateau, not a WALL !
Keep performing at your best level, and you will get to the next level. Patience.
The next level will also be a plateau, and there will be more after that.
Go as far as you can in the direction of your goal.
Even if you never get all the way there,
you will be AMAZED at how far you can go.

Mathematics is often the edge that separates the top 5% from the rest of the pack.
In any field of endeavor.

P.S. Hello Dave Wolfson, I wonder if Tyler's generation understands the "grasshopper" reference. LOL.

-T

 

[JamesCaruso]

Tyler,

I went through the same thing you are wrestling with, about 28 years ago when I was already in college trying to decide what to major in. I had always been an above-average student grade-wise, but calculus was something I just could not grasp. I took it in my senior year of high school, and it was the only class I ever failed. When I was a freshman in college, I took it again, and even seeing the material for the second time I still only achieved a C or C+.

Calculus was a large part of the reason that I decided not to go into meteorology. But there were other reasons too: the need to go all the way to a PhD for any real career opportunities, the limited job opportunities to begin with, the likelihood of having to take whatever job was available to start (for example, graveyard shift at an NWS field office in a city not of my choosing), etc. Although I had always loved storms (my main passion at the time was actually tropical weather, but now I am more interested in severe convective weather), I found that when it came to many of the topics in Meteorology 101 (such as the physics of how a raindrop forms), I just wasn't interested enough to put in the effort. Not that my alternative (accounting) was all that much more fascinating, but I think you can understand what I am saying: I just didn't love it enough at that level of detail to devote myself to it, and I absolutely hated calculus.

Do I regret not going into meteorology? Sometimes, but then I remember that it is chasing I love, and few real meteorology jobs include chasing. And even if they did, chasing for work/research is a lot different than chasing for fun. I do love forecasting too, but a job in forecasting could ironically limit chasing opportunities.

So it all comes down to what you REALLY want to do, and only you can answer that. If you truly want to be a meteorologist, then don't let anything stand in your way. Don't be afraid of the calculus, do it and get it done. Someone above made a great point about the availability of online resources to help, which were not available in my day. Make sure you identify whether you don't like calculus ONLY because it is difficult, or whether you truly dislike it and have no interest in it. Don't ever fail to do something just because it is challenging! If you truly do not ENJOY calculus, then you need to consider whether it is something that you will actually have to use in day-to-day practice as a meteorologist; if not, then just get through it in college and graduate school and then you may not have to deal with it much. I am not a meteorologist so cannot answer how often you would actually have to use the calculus skills in your daily work, although I am sure it depends on exactly what meteorological discipline you are in.

Especially at this stage of your life, you should take calculus to keep your options open; you still have a few years to make a final decision on career direction, and that decision should involve a variety of other factors besides calculus.

Good luck!
Jim Caruso



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Rob H]

I only took regular pre-calc in high school and they taught me to rely exclusively on a calculator and to just estimate limits and exact values. Get to college and they expected me to do it by hand, and I freaked. Then I buckled down and still pulled off B's in Calc 1 and Calc 2. If I can do it, anyone can.