Printing Photos

[Dick McGowan]

Does anyone else print photos on photo paper at home? What DPI do you use or PPI? I received an HP Photosmart C-4100 All in One Series that supposedly does 4 x 6's and 8 x 11's. I own Adobe CS2, so I can always use it to do the formatting, but was just unsure of what settings to use (DPI, PPI, resizing, etc). Any recommendations or suggestions for any of it?

 

[John Diel]

Dick,

I've always used 300 DPI when printing photos. Of course that's on an older Canon S9000. I havene't been able to tell the difference on any higher DPI settings.

You might also experiment with different Papers too. Some 3rd party papers do a better job that the company paper does. The paper I found does a really nice job are the Ilford brand papers.

Use your cropping tool to set the size of the print. If the printer supports full bleed then set the crop size an 1/8 inch bigger than the actual print. If your printing smaller than the peper size (say 5X7 on 8.5 X 11) crop for tha actual print size.

The conversion process that Photoshop uses is really pretty good when it downsizes or even up sizes your photo. Only when you get into the big prints (16 X 20 or larger) will you really start looking at programs that do a better job of resizing.

I've done prints anywhere from 2 X 3 inches to 18 X 24 inches and found the 300 DPI works well.

Hope that helps!

 

[Mike Umscheid]

I haven't done much printing of my own yet...still. What little printing I do is through an online lab (WHCC out of Minnesota). Anyway, of everything I've read... anywhere from 200 to 300 PPI (not DPI) will result in images that will be very pleasing to the eye. As an example a good 4x6" print should be printed from a 800x1200 pixel image (200 PPI) up to 1200x1800 pixels (300 PPI). There still remains a source of confusion by many as a result of misterminology between DPI and PPI. DPI acronym refers to the dots-per-inch that is strickly a printing term relating to the microscopic ink placement to one inch (a much higher number, of course, related to PPI). PPI is pixels-per-inch and refers to the number of screen pixels to output print size. Anyway, the reason I bring this up is that there are many, many websites that use the DPI acronym when in fact they are talking about pixels-per-inch. I guess a dot and a pixel can be the same thing though ;-)

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

It'd be interesting to know what the resolution capabilities are of the human eye and set distances. I print all mine at the lab at 240 ppi. I'm sure that is plenty for a viewing distance of at least 1 foot. I mean hell, one can just look at their own monitor. Most are 72 or 96 ppi right? Or less depending on how it is set. Just found this site:

http://www.wellesley.edu/Computing/Photoshop/screen_resolution.html

So my 17 inch monitor set to 1024x768 is around 82 ppi. So if I print at 240 ppi that is about 3 times as much resolution as my monitor. Once you are at a certain distance from your monitor 82 ppi would look just as good as 240. I doubt it is very far. I think 240 ppi would allow some pretty close inspection before one could see the differnce in 300ppi or greater. I'm sure 200ppi is plenty for most prints.

 

[Dick McGowan]

Thanks for the replies. My printer has settings with "Best" which is 600 dpi, one that is higher which is 1200, and then it just divides down, so 300, etc. I tried one at 600 which looked okay, but it leaves these little lines, and kind of bleeds a little, and 1200 is even worse. I am using Dell High gloss paper with it right now, should I use the one you suggested John? Does paper make that big of a difference, or do you think it is just the printer with the DPI I have it set on?

It's frustrating because the photo looks really good, minus these "lines" and areas where it looks like something that has been "dragged" across the photo.

 

[Billy Griffin]

Dick,

The paper really can make a difference. The lower quality papers will tend to streak or bleed through on occasion. Also, depends on if you're using "glossy" or "matte" finish. Does you printer allow you to select glossy or matte finish paper? Obviously be sure you pair those settings up with the type of paper you use.

I've used Canon photo paper and been very pleased.
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/c...yAct&fcategoryid=103&keycode=chromalife_index

http://estore.usa.canon.com/Specification.asp?ITEM_ID=36805

 

[John Diel]

Hi Dick,

Sorry for the delay, I've been out on vacation the last week. Got "fish bit"!

Check with Ilford, they probably have paper that will work specifically with your printer. Also check with Red River Paper, they have a very nice selction as well. I use theirs when I don't have any of the Ilford handy.

With Inkjet printers, the ink is layed down in a fine mist or a series of dots, The "bleed" mixes and thats how we get the massive numbers of colors from just a few that are actually printed. The Print Engine determines what mix is needed to produce the color from the print.

I personally prefer a semi matte paper. This allows the ink to absord into the paper better and prevents "pooling" we see on gloss papers. The better papers will allow the ink to absorb and then seal itself with a ceramic coat that's built into the paper. The gloss finishes do this as well, but not near as good. The Black and darker colors are thicker and don't absorb quite as well, and will "pool" on the gloss surface instead of soaking into the paper.

If the printer is a dye sublamination printer, that's a whole different story. I'm not familiar with your printer so I can't tell you what type it is.

A couple of things to remember. Think in terms of "Normal Veiwing Disatance" How many of your friends or the majority of people that veiw this print are actually going to get a magnifying glass and counts the dots? MOst 4X6 prints are veiwed at about 2 feet or more. Same maybe a bit more for 5X7's. 8X10's are generally hung on walls and vewed at distances longer than 3 feet. How much details can you really discern at those distances?

You'll go through various papers before you settle on one. Write the different companies and see if they will send you a couple of sheets for testing or if they have a sampler pack. Pick an image that has the colors and shapes that you will most likely be be printing and print one of each then do a side by side comparison. Pick the one that best suits you and go for it.

Do some research on the companies. Of course they will all tell you thier the best. If your printing mostly landscapes, check out those sites they support landscape photography and hit the forums. I know you have a few out there. I used to frequest them quite a bit a few years ago.

Good luck and I hope this helps!

Of course, I've made it as clear as mud for you.

 

[Eric Flescher]

printing tricks

Dick and company


Just saw this thread after monsoon chasing and photography of hummingbirds in Tucson and south of Tucson.
I have heard that with 300 dpi you can literally make your printed images almost any size you want. Please confirm this.

Also as I have seen, it is really important to use the printer with the same kind of paper (example epson with epson). Does this really make a difference?

I just got reloaded my 7 inks on my printer for epson 220. I used inkstop or whatever the Catridge world. Ask or look for the freq card. I just got a free cartridge.

However for the price and convenience it is really to use the COSTCO if you have one near you . 8 by 11 or so for under $2. I did a whole bunch for my yellowstone pics and they came out fantastic. When you put the cd or usb file device into the photo configure machine, it will tell you if you can't do an 8 by 11 etc by posting a red square around what you can do (which can be moved around).

At that price it is almost not worth it for me to use the printer for color printing but just some isolated jobs. I can leave the cd or post my pics and configure them at Costco and pick up next day.


::

Does anyone else print photos on photo paper at home? What DPI do you use or PPI? I received an HP Photosmart C-4100 All in One Series that supposedly does 4 x 6's and 8 x 11's. I own Adobe CS2, so I can always use it to do the formatting, but was just unsure of what settings to use (DPI, PPI, resizing, etc). Any recommendations or suggestions for any of it?

 

[Cris Schroeder]

I'm also fairly new to photo printing. I tried to bite off too much when I started and had (have) some bad color management issues.

To make it easy, I recommend sticking with papers from your printer manufacturer. The printer should have shipped with factory color profiles for their proprietary papers, making it easier to pick a good profile from Photoshop. I have a Canon Pixma iP4200 so I use Canon matte photo paper (cheap) for draft prints, and either semigloss or pro glossy for final prints.

I'd love to try some of the Ilford or other fine art papers but I can't seem to print from Photoshop without getting an ugly magenta cast to the photo.

The good news is that most photo printers have great quality. I was blown away the first time I printed a decent photo on good paper with a good color profile.

Oh, yeah, back to your original question. I've printed at several resolutions. I'll typically print smaller photos (4x6) at 300 PPI since they are held closer to the eye. Larger prints (8x10) I'll print at either 240 or 300.

 

[John Diel]

If you're really serious about printing at home rather than sending out, you will need to calibrate/profile your monitor AND Printer. There are various places via the web that will do this for a price. It's easiest to run with the WYSIWYG when your monitor matches what you print.

You can experiment with various setting and when you print try to reduce the amount or add the amount of a particuar color, then print again. It's time consuming, but eventually it will work. Then you have to either create a new profile using this setting and then using that profile every time you print.

Again, this is a little time consuming and gets paper/ink intensive, but it will work. Also, stick with the company inks rather than the budget inks. It's more expensive but the manufacturer inks are constistent with their quality. The third party inks "usually" will work, but you have to do the profile process all over again to be sure.

300 dpi (dots per inch) is a printing standard and does not translate to the resolution of your photo. PPI (pixels per inch) is a resolution standard and translates to what you see on your screen. The two are not really interchangable but can be pretty close on the final print. As far as print size is concerned, this is mostly PPI. and works with what you see on your screen. Once you've gone past the maze sixe of your cameras native resolution (something like 1048X1056 pixels etc.) you are now in the realm of "interpolating" the space between the pixels. Photoshop's native interpolating is pretty good and will generally work well as long as you don't try to make life size posters from a small image. There are other third party programs that will allow you to "size up" photos and they work to varying degrees depending on what you get.

I have gone as large as 18x24 prints from a 4 megapixel camera and done well with it. I wouldn't go any larger though. You start losing detail and the image gets a little fuzzy after that. Some of the newer cameras native resolution 'may' allow you to resize a print larger than that. I just haven't gone there. I routinely print 13X19 prints and send out quite a bit for 16X20 prints and haven't had a problem.

Of course the quality of the original photo is a BIG factor in this. The larger print you make, the more detail, including mistakes and edits will show up. There are times I make edits down to the single pixel level and have to watch carefully what I'm doing to make sure the edit doesn't show up on a portrait.

So to answer the question, 300 DPI does not allow you to make any size print you want. It is simply a printing notation that tells the printer how many dots to lay out in an inch of printing. 300 dpi is considered "normal" printing. You can get printers that will allow for 600 dpi, and up to 1200 dpi interpolated, but 300 is the standard.

 

[Mike Hollingshead]

Printing at home = headache. Printing at a lab = slightly less of a headache. At least there they get to mess with inks and whatnot. I still don't fully get how everything works together. I bought a spyder and calibrated my monitor. The problem came that when I went to the lab it didn't seem like they could even tell me what to do next. I thought I needed a profile from their printer, but it wasn't happening. I gave up. Maybe I needed to give them a profile from my monitor calibration, I don't know. All I know is on their epson ink printer the images look pretty much exactly like they do on my monitor. On their lazer emultion thing....good lord they look like ass 95% of the time. Dark, colorless about, and horribly flat. I just never understood how they had two printers in there that would print my same file sooooooooooooo much different. Things were cheaper for the smaller sizes on that printer, but I said screw it and just have them print all my stuff on the big one. It sounds like even if I fully understood the real steps to it, that it would still be a pain in the butt. But, spyders don't cost much and it's horribly simple to calibrate your monitor. One also has to remember the shooting space the camera takes the image, as well as what you set photoshop to work in. Colors and profiling can become quite the lengthy topic.

 

[John Diel]

Mike's hit the nail on the head. It ISN'T easy to get everything right the first time. Sending your stuff to a lab and hoping their print profile will match your monitor profile, well... you can see the issues.

Some of the best information I've found and had recommended by several sources is http://www.drycreekphoto.com/icc/.

This site has lots of goodies and really gets into the process.I've used thier profiles (custom) for a couple of labs and they seemed to work out pretty well. However, for the most part, I print most of my stuff at home and only send out the really big jobs.

 

[fplowman]

I believe in Photoshop there is also a setting for the type of photo printer the lab has. Wayne Sclesky (chaser/member) turned me onto this.

 

[Eric Flescher]

Thanks for the tip Fred

Good tip Fred. I will have to check it out.
For batching my stuff expectally for 8.5 by 11 and greater, I will use COSTCO. Can't beat the price, convenience and workmanship.
Also the computer device says if you can't nicely print the photo with the right megapixel. You can literally cut off the portion on the screen by placing what you want to print (the portion of the screen) to get the sizing you want to make good resolution.
I will try some 4 by 6 or 3x5 at home and will once again check out the setting for my mac.

Also for you mac users
for web stuff I usually just click and drag my photos onto a desktop folder. There I crop, alter the brightness and contrast using Photoshop and sesize. I then get the photos ready for my blog, website and printing.

::

I believe in Photoshop there is also a setting for the type of photo printer the lab has. Wayne Sclesky (chaser/member) turned me onto this.

 

[John Diel]

Just an FYI,

The Photo Printing machines used most often by smaller photo labs (Consumer Labs, NOT Pro Labs) is the Fuji Frontier and Fuji Pictography printers or Noritsu Digital Lab (Kodak).

These are pretty good machines and have been around for a while, getting updated every year or so. However, I have produced better quality prints from an inkjet printer than the Fuji machines output.

The key is the Operator. If you get one that knows what they are doing and has an understanding of how the machine works and an understanding of photography, you will get very good results.

Unfortunately, most of the operators have minimal training and simply go by the cookbook. Most have no understanding of photography. Many are teens on their first job. They push a button and it goes.